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I am looking a purchasing a 74 nova. It has a Target Master 350, can anyone tell me a little bit about this engine. he is askin 5000 for the car. Looks good. Is this a decent price for a 74 Nova? what does a mid-range Nova go for? Hes offerd to trade me for my 07 harley sportster 883 that i paid 5k for. What do you guys think
 
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to my knowledge a "Target Master" was a GM crate or replacement engine from years and years back. i'm unsure if they still use that name (target master) for GM crate engines... you might inquire as to the age of the engine.

as far as worth (5K) that all depends on the condition of the car which i'm/we're not seeing... what's the condition of the body, interior, paint, suspension, brakes etc etc etc. look REAL close for rust, damaged body panels etc before trading.

it "might" be worth 5K... but then again, it might not ;)
 

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Welcome to the team Nate!

Californy is a big state, If you live near Johnny, or some other member living on the wrong coast (were it rains in the winter instead of the summer), you could ask them to look at the car with you. Bear in mind the 1973-'74 isn't as popular as the 1968-'72 years are.

I don't know if 5K is a fair asking price for the car or not; but the motor was a cheap replacement motor for warranty repair and over the counter service part. It was not a virgin motor as they sell today, but a reworked (rebuilt) stone stock production motor that failed QC on the production run (some had VIN numbers on the ID pad). They sold back in the good old days for about $300 to $450 depending upon what was attached to the block.

Big Dave
 

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to my knowledge a "Target Master" was a GM crate or replacement engine from years and years back. i'm unsure if they still use that name (target master) for GM crate engines... you might inquire as to the age of the engine.
The target master engine!
Target master name is dead!
If the valve cover says GM "Target Master" it is a min of 4 years old.
Not a OEM GM Part, and not warrantied threw GM.
This was supplied under the AC Delco Aftermarket
department.

It was not a GM Factory part.
The engine used basic GM hard parts, block, heads and lowest bid parts and were assembled by cheep contract.
They were sold threw AC Delco aftermarket parts engine. (The AC Delco is no longer in the engine transmission business)
They were not original GM parts, quality control standards, as the crate engines are today.

When we started the New GM Engine program all of the "TARGET MASTER" engines were sold off to clearing house and not allowed to use the GM or AC Delco name.

TARGET MASTER IS NOT EVEN CLOSE TO WHAT A GM CRATE ENGINE IS TODAY.

Todays crate engine uses same exact quality parts that all GM engines receive today. quality control is a lot higher. THE ENGINE IS OEM!
every part is a OEM part, and where parts have upgraded over the years the newer designs are used.
 
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Hey Al, the Target Master engines i was referring to were back in the early/mid '80's and came from Chevy. whether they were actually a GM product, that i can't tell ya. i too was aware of the proplems with the target units that's why i kinda put that disclaimer
"to my knowledge a "Target Master" was a GM crate or replacement engine from years and years back. i'm unsure if they still use that name (target master) for GM crate engines... you might inquire as to the age of the engine."

i appreciate your clarification on that as far as the AC/Delco part... you're correct ;)
 

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Like has been asked above; is it worth it to you?

If the body is nice, the motor is running fine, and you can drive and enjoy the car; then it is worth it just for basic transportation. As an added plus you get the look of a muscle car that can be hot rodded or slamed or what ever you want to do with the car. Motors and trannies are easy to find and replace with the advent of crate motors. Body work and finding parts needed for a forty year old car are not that easy, so have someone look at the body for problems that could come back haunt you.

Big Dave
 

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I had a target master 350 in my 74 Nova SS that thing was awesome .Never had a problem with it .Kept the oil clean and kept it tuned .It had a Edelbrock Performer with a 600 Holley Vacuum Sec. Carb.and 1.625" Blackjack headers.with dual 2.25" exhaust.It also had a turbo 350 with a megashifter ratchet shifter.Loved banging those gears!!!The motor had 4 bolt mains and plenty of torque .If the car is solid and the motor is strong It might be worth around what they're asking.
 

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The target master engine!
Target master name is dead!
If the valve cover says GM "Target Master" it is a min of 4 years old.
Not a OEM GM Part, and not warrantied threw GM.
This was supplied under the AC Delco Aftermarket
department.

It was not a GM Factory part.
The engine used basic GM hard parts, block, heads and lowest bid parts and were assembled by cheep contract.
They were sold threw AC Delco aftermarket parts engine. (The AC Delco is no longer in the engine transmission business)
They were not original GM parts, quality control standards, as the crate engines are today.

When we started the New GM Engine program all of the "TARGET MASTER" engines were sold off to clearing house and not allowed to use the GM or AC Delco name.

TARGET MASTER IS NOT EVEN CLOSE TO WHAT A GM CRATE ENGINE IS TODAY.

Todays crate engine uses same exact quality parts that all GM engines receive today. quality control is a lot higher. THE ENGINE IS OEM!
every part is a OEM part, and where parts have upgraded over the years the newer designs are used.

Al, I think we have had this discussion before.

The Target series engines were sold through GM dealers, atleast in this area. I bought quite a few of them. The 350s I bought were brand new 4 bolt blocks with all new parts, dihed cast pistons, and open chamber 1.94 heads, stock .390-.410 camshaft.

These engines were basically complete less the intake (and possibly the balancer?).

I had excellent luck with all of them I have used.


Im not sure when the term "Target" was discontinued, but I know they were sold by GM dealers.

The AC Delco rebuilt line was in my opinion junk, and should not be confused with the Target series "new" GM replacement engine.


I do "think" most of the Target (atleast the 350s I have seen) blocks, cranks (cast 350 (442 casting)) and heads (993s?) were cast in Mexico and were the lighter weight 010 casting blocks.

Personally I prefer to use the heavier 010 block regardless of where the lighter version was cast.

You know Al, I think I still have 1 or 2 complete tall deck 427 truck "Target" series replacement engines that I bought used off of a local Chev dealer that were replaced.


Good Luck Al,

Jeff
 

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Al, I think we have had this discussion before.

The Target series engines were sold through GM dealers, at least in this area. I bought quite a few of them. The 350s I bought were brand new 4 bolt blocks with all new parts, dihed cast pistons, and open chamber 1.94 heads, stock .390-.410 camshaft.

These engines were basically complete less the intake (and possibly the balancer?).

I had excellent luck with all of them I have used.


Im not sure when the term "Target" was discontinued, but I know they were sold by GM dealers.

The AC Delco rebuilt line was in my opinion junk, and should not be confused with the Target series "new" GM replacement engine.


I do "think" most of the Target (at least the 350s I have seen) blocks, cranks (cast 350 (442 casting)) and heads (993s?) were cast in Mexico and were the lighter weight 010 casting blocks.

Personally I prefer to use the heavier 010 block regardless of where the lighter version was cast.

You know Al, I think I still have 1 or 2 complete tall deck 427 truck "Target" series replacement engines that I bought used off of a local Chev dealer that were replaced.


Good Luck Al,

Jeff
yes we have jeff.
And as before.
The casting parts will be GM parts the usable parts IE: bearing, rings, timing components were in most cases not GM quality contract parts.
They were not "GM" engines.

AC Delco is the Aftermarket division on GM, SPO

yes, they were sold threw GM dealers. And AC Delco warehouses.

Just like batteries, wiper blades, belts & hoses.

There are AC Delco parts only available threw GM dealers.

Al
 

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Jeff, I just went threw my old Paperwork.

4th Quater of 2004 (Oct, Nov Dec) The return policy for the Target Master (AC Delco) engines exspired.
Any dealer or Ac Delco warehouse was stuck with them.
And engines sold or installed after Jun 1, 2004 had no warranty.
The original warranty was 1yr 12,000 miles. All warranty's with the Target Engine line exspired May, 31 2005

Al Smith
Formor GM Employee, SPO Powertrain S/E division.
 

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I only work at a small dealership but I think I only ever saw 2 warranty claims on a Targetmaster. 1 was a cam worn out in about a year or two, the other one had an extra valve cover bolt lying on top of a piston and as soon as the engine was fired the bolt pushed through the combustion chamber into a water jacket. And as stated, this heated discussion has been had on another Nova forum at one point.

Now, where DID I put the lid for that worm can........???
 

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Al, I really dont have a clue about when AC Delco, or GM Target Master engine warranty changed or even when the programs stoped or if they did stop.


I can say this though, Target engines were available from GM dealers starting sometime in the mid 70s. I have bought quite a few.

I have also had several of them apart and the internals were not "cheap" parts. To me they appeared to be about what was oe in a production engine.

My only point here Al is that Target engines were not rebuilt, they were new and of very good quality, atleast in my opinion. I have never seen a used or poor quality part in a Target engine.

The rebuilt AC Delco engines were another story in my opinion. I think about everyone of them I saw was (again in my opinion) junk. Cheap parts and very poor workmanship.

Personally I see no connection between the Target Master series engines sold through GM dealers and the AC Delco rebuilt engines sold through Delco dealers.
 

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Al, I really dont have a clue about when AC Delco, or GM Target Master engine warranty changed or even when the programs stoped or if they did stop.


I can say this though, Target engines were available from GM dealers starting sometime in the mid 70s. I have bought quite a few.

I have also had several of them apart and the internals were not "cheap" parts. To me they appeared to be about what was oe in a production engine.

My only point here Al is that Target engines were not rebuilt, they were new and of very good quality, atleast in my opinion. I have never seen a used or poor quality part in a Target engine.

The rebuilt AC Delco engines were another story in my opinion. I think about everyone of them I saw was (again in my opinion) junk. Cheap parts and very poor workmanship.

Personally I see no connection between the Target Master series engines sold through GM dealers and the AC Delco rebuilt engines sold through Delco dealers.

I never said they were not available at GM dealers.

AC Delco is GM's aftermarket division.

And the Target master engines were NOT! GM OEM engines.

THE TARGET MASTER NAME IS DEAD! And should not be referenced in any way to the current crate engine program by GM replacement or performance engines.

AC Delco is a GM branch of SPO (Service parts & operations) And does not fall under the same rules as a GM factory part that must be sold threw a dealer.

Now you have Level 1 & level 2 Powertrain dealers. No GM engine is sold without being billed threw a GM dealer. TODAY!

There were a high rate of warranty problems with the Target Master engines. It does not carry a good name in the engine market.

There are people who work in the parts departments in dealer who know what I am saying.

I am not bashing GM, I worked for them,. I care about them. But don't give the false information.

Target Master Engines were NOT! OEM Engines!

Al
 

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Al, I guess I just cant properly convey what I mean.

In my opinion-

There was a "Target" series engine program available from GM dealers (read this as new car/truck dealers) starting in about the mid 70s

The ones I have seen were quality engines with very high quality internals, and I can say the pistons used in ones I have had apart were identical to GM oe. Even the valve train was identical to OE parts.

None of the "Target" engines im refering to had any mention of AC Delco.


Now maybe later Delco and Target were combined, I dont know, but I am refering to the mid 70s up (I dont know when they stopped) replacement engine sold through GM, not an AC Delco rebuilt.


The tall deck 427s I have are all new parts as well. Everything is std in dimension and no substandard parts that I can see.



Could you post a copy of your info that shows the Target motors were Delco, and of cheaper quality?

Its interesting Al, but you are the only person who has ever told me they found low quality (less than original) in an early (I guess) target engine, with the exception to the Mexican castings (that I still see used today) and they may be of equal quality, Im certainly no expert.


Thanks Al, I enjoy the discussion. To bad I just dont have any time any more. I had forgotten what fun it was talking with you.



Jeff
 

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Al, I guess I just cant properly convey what I mean.

In my opinion-

There was a "Target" series engine program available from GM dealers (read this as new car/truck dealers) starting in about the mid 70s

The ones I have seen were quality engines with very high quality internals, and I can say the pistons used in ones I have had apart were identical to GM oe. Even the valve train was identical to OE parts.

None of the "Target" engines im refering to had any mention of AC Delco.


Now maybe later Delco and Target were combined, I don't know, but I am referring to the mid 70s up (I dont know when they stopped) replacement engine sold through GM, not an AC Delco rebuilt.


The tall deck 427s I have are all new parts as well. Everything is std in dimension and no substandard parts that I can see.



Could you post a copy of your info that shows the Target motors were Delco, and of cheaper quality?

Its interesting Al, but you are the only person who has ever told me they found low quality (less than original) in an early (I guess) target engine, with the exception to the Mexican castings (that I still see used today) and they may be of equal quality, Im certainly no expert.


Thanks Al, I enjoy the discussion. To bad I just dont have any time any more. I had forgotten what fun it was talking with you.



Jeff


And maybe 35 years ago things were different!

Before 1991 I can not be of help.

GM paper work? I could not post it. Even stuff I still have is proprietary.

I am done with this.

I am very happy you have had good success with the engines.
 

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Im from Vandenberg AFB, by Santa Barbara, originally from Fresno, (go Bulldogs). I just found out this isnt an SS, probably not worth it right?
It depends on the condition of the Car Nathan. It could still be worth 5k but it may not also as has been said. It just depends on how clean the car is, and is everything there? Has there been any restoration? or did someone just throw a quick paint job on it and put a 5k for sale sign on it. Does it run out good and drive good? A 74/75 Nova could easily bring 5k if it's in good shape and looks and drives good, ask Phillip how much he thinks his will be worth when he gets a little more along with his? Like Big Dave said the 68-72 models are more classic but the 73-79's still hold the Nova lines and look pretty sharp when dressed up. You just have to be the judge on it. Maybe you could get some pic's and post 'em and you could probably get some better feedback. :yes:
 

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I never said they were not available at GM dealers.

AC Delco is GM's aftermarket division.

And the Target master engines were NOT! GM OEM engines.

THE TARGET MASTER NAME IS DEAD! And should not be referenced in any way to the current crate engine program by GM replacement or performance engines.

AC Delco is a GM branch of SPO (Service parts & operations) And does not fall under the same rules as a GM factory part that must be sold threw a dealer.

Now you have Level 1 & level 2 Powertrain dealers. No GM engine is sold without being billed threw a GM dealer. TODAY!

There were a high rate of warranty problems with the Target Master engines. It does not carry a good name in the engine market.

There are people who work in the parts departments in dealer who know what I am saying.

I am not bashing GM, I worked for them,. I care about them. But don't give the false information.

Target Master Engines were NOT! OEM Engines!

Al
I disagree. While they may not have been GM "OEM engines" they were GM manufactured and endorsed replacements whether they were built directly or indirectly, it was still part of their product offerings just like AC/Delco spark plugs were they are still GM owned and endorsed. Whether they were new or rebuilt I don't recall, whether they were actually manufactured by GM or their Aftermarket AC/Delco I don't recall, but what I do recall is that the TARGET Masters were endorsed, marketed and sold by GM Dealers as GM OEM replacement engines. I believe the real dispute here is when actually did MR. Goodwrench come on scene???? I can't remember whether it was in the late 80's or early 90's that Mr. Goodwrench came into the picture but he was a HUGE GM marketing program to help gain customer confidence in GM service departments and GM and/or AC/Delco products. It was during this transition that the TARGETMASTER engines began to disappear and the birth of the TRUE GM GOODWRENCH (including EL HECHO EN MEXICO) crate motors began to appear. So I am pretty sure it's been much longer than 4 years since there's been any Targetmasters around because the GM GOODWRENCH 350 has been around much longer than that. And then GMPP has really taken off over the last 10-15 years or so to what it is today. I had heard of some problems with SOME of the TARGET Master engines which leads me to believe they were actually factory rebuilds and not NEW but they were not all bad and I'd bet that 90% or better were fine but whether they were from GM powerplant factories or AC/Delco contract facilities they were still GM as AC/Delco IS GM. My 2 cents worth! :D

Just when you thought it was safe to go back into the water!!!!
 
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