Springs have sprung - Nova Tech
Nova Tech  
Find Nova Parts at SS396.com     
GROUND UP & SS396.com         
Official Sponsor of Team Nova
   

Auto Insurance



Brakes & Suspension Conversion Questions & more

Novas.net is the premier Chevrolet Nova Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old May 3rd, 09, 11:41 PM
Big Dave Big Dave is offline
Site Moderator
Dave
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Tampa FL
Posts: 17,333
Big Dave has a positive reputation
Default Springs have sprung

SS Suspension
Part one: Springs
GM sourced their springs from five different vendors. After spending all day researching on-line and pouring over cataloges I am posting this info about two of the major sources with part numbers.

Coil Springs: A spring rate is derived from only two things. First is the diameter of the wire used, and second, the total number of active coils used (this is expressed in the outside diameter of the coil and it's free height less the bottom coil which is closed). If neither of these two criteria change, your spring rate will remain the same over time. Sagging springs are due to a loss of elasticity in the spring's material (the temper in the wire has changed due to work hardening). Usually this is caused by a over stressing the spring (using it in the wrong application will also over stress a spring such as a six cylinder spring under a BBC front end). When a spring takes a "set" the rate of the coil has not changed, only the amount of load it will handle does (which is why the car sags, the spring can no longer pick up the weight of the car).

If the spring's designer chooses a smaller diameter wire (which tends to soften the rate), he would have to compensate by using fewer active coils (which tends to stiffen the rate, but makes for less suspension travel) to achieve the desired rate. There are two possible reasons for a spring designer to use a smaller than normal wire diameter for a specific spring rate:

The first problem would be when the ideal diameter (calculated) wire may not be available as a production drawn wire size, and using the next larger wire size (which requires more active coils) would produce a spring with insufficient spacing between its coils (it would bottom out, or go into coil bind too soon).

But usually with production parts it is the co$t which is the prime consideration; and by using a smaller diameter wire with fewer coils (by shortening the length of wire used) material cost is reduced. Unfortunately, many springs are built this way and these type of springs can cause a lot of problems for the chassis tuner (which is why you need double adjustable shocks).

So what is the correct spring rate for my car? The answer depends upon the weight of the vehicle at each corner (it differs from side to side due to the placement of accessories and the battery even though the factory used the same spring rate for each side), how you want the car to handle, and what the road surfaces you plan to drive on are like. Just for reference the factory put a 5.56" outside diameter 380 pounds per inch rated spring in the SBC SS Nova (stock SBC was 347).

Weight of the car is as you have it now, not how it left the factor; so you actually have to go out and weigh the vehicle. Even driving over the scales at your neighborhood truck stop (accurate to the nearest 20 pounds) and then getting another weight with the car parked half on and half off the scales (so that the front of the instrument panel lines up with the edge of the scale as a guesstimate of the cars center of gravity) will give you the weight over the nose. Best results are obtained by placing four corner scales under each tire to get the weight of your car level and at rest.

Handling is a qualitative measurement. What one driver likes and has success driving with you might discover is a handful to drive. This doesn't just apply to road racing and circle track (though they are much more cognizant of the importance of suspension tuning). The first driver that comes to mind is Bob Muravez (aka Floyd Lippencotte, Jr.; to keep his dad from finding out he was driving professionally) who piloted the "Freight Train" to so many victories that they banned the class altogether in 1972. But no one else had his success (there were 16 different drivers in the car), and most were one time drivers, vowing never to get behind the wheel of the "Freight Train" ever again. The second driver is "Wild Willy" Borsch who piloted (it was closer to flying than driving) the "Winged Express" with only one hand as he calmly cruised down the track sideways.

Road surface enters into the equation more than you might think. I grew up watching the Sebring endurance races every year (up until they scheduled the Gatornationals the same weekend anyway). I observed the cars from many angles (a 12 hour race allows you to move around) noting the handling of a lot of sports cars and how they transitioned from a smooth infield race track to the taxiways and runways of a WWII era bomber practice field. A lot of the expensive hand made European specialty cars like the Ferrari, the Maserati, and the Lamborgini's, did not fair as well as the more mundane Lotus Seven, Austin Healy's, Jaguar and Porsches did (the 911's not the 908's), the Corvette's competing in the seven liter class were embarrassing to watch in terms of acceleration, but he was a local driver so I cheered him onand his car handled well. This is because of the spring and shock packages designed into the more expensive cars were not designed for driving on the street, but on a smooth race tracks custom made to make them look good. Dirt track has a different suspension than sprinting on a short track which is different again from high bank oval racing (I think everyone will concede that rock crawlers and swap rat 4x4 trucks have different suspension components than most cars to deal with their "road" surface).

1968-'79 SBC Nova
Replacement Stock SBC Front Coil Springs
1968 2 door coupe, and 4 door sedan without A/C
Eaton-Detroit Spring MC5288
1968 2 door coupe, and 4 door sedan with A/C
Eaton-Detroit Spring MC1262
1969 2 door coupe, and 4 door sedan without A/C
Eaton-Detroit Spring MC5288
1969 2 door coupe, and 4 door sedan with A/C
Eaton-Detroit Spring MC1228
1970 2 door coupe, and 4 door sedan without A/C
Eaton-Detroit Spring MC1236
1970 2 door coupe, and 4 door sedan with A/C
Eaton-Detroit Spring MC1228
1971 2 door coupe, and 4 door sedan without A/C
Eaton-Detroit Spring MC1236
1971 2 door coupe, and 4 door sedan with A/C
Eaton-Detroit Spring MC1236
1972 2 door coupe, and 4 door sedan without A/C
Eaton-Detroit Spring MC1266
1972 2 door coupe, and 4 door sedan with A/C
Eaton-Detroit Spring MC1266
1973-'74 2 door coupe, 2 door hatchback, and 4 door sedan without A/C
Eaton-Detroit Spring MC1228
1973-'74 2 door coupe, 2 door hatchback, and 4 door sedan with A/C
Eaton-Detroit Spring MC1258
1975-'79 2 door coupe, hatchback, and 4 door sedan without A/C
Eaton-Detroit Spring MC1212
1975-'79 2 door coupe, hatchback, and 4 door sedan with A/C
Eaton-Detroit Spring MC1206

1969-'70 SBC Nova
Replacement Heavy Duty SBC Front Coil Springs
1969-'70 2 door coupe, and 4 door sedan
Eaton-Detroit Spring MC1262

1968-'79 Nova
Replacement Stock BBC Front Coil Springs
1969-'70 2 door coupe, and 4 door sedan
Eaton-Detroit Spring MC6428
1972 door coupe, and 4 door sedan
Eaton-Detroit Spring MC1918
1973 2 door coupe
Eaton-Detroit Spring MC1542
1973 2 door hatchback
Eaton-Detroit Spring MC6428
1974 2 door coupe, hatchback, and 4 door sedan
Eaton-Detroit Spring MC6428

1968-'74 Nova
Replacement Stock SBC Front Coil Springs
Federal Mogul-Moog 6312
Inside coil diameter: 3.675 inches
Wire diameter: 0.640 inches
Load height: 10.750 inches
Load Weight: 1800.0 pounds
Approximate free height: 16.086 inches
Rated at: 337 Pounds per Inch

Federal Mogul-Moog 6308
Inside coil diameter: 3.675 inches
Wire diameter: 0.640 inches
Load height: 10.750 inches
Load Weight: 1607.0 pounds
Approximate free height: 14.981 inches
Rated at: 379 Pounds per Inch

1968-'74 SBC Nova
For improved handling over stock springs, requires a stiffer spring.
Federal Mogul-Moog 5536
Inside coil diameter: 3.630 inches
Wire diameter: 0.687 inches
Load height: 11.000 inches
Load Weight: 1984.5 pounds
Approximate free height: 14.000 inches
Rated at: 500 Pounds per Inch after you cold cut the open end to a 14" free height.

1968-'74 BBC Nova
Stock Front Springs
GM 3955720 Code EY (51-132 extra pounds), or YF (base); Spring Rate 345 Pounds per Inch
GM 3955722 Code YH (133-214 extra pounds), YM (215-296 extra pounds), or YP (296 and over extra pounds); Spring Rate 345 Pounds per Inch

Heavy Duty Suspension (F40 and F41)
GM 3955727 Code HH (base), or HJ (295 and over extra pounds); Spring Rate 400 Pounds per Inch

1968-'74 BBC Nova
Replacement Stock Springs
Federal Mogul-Moog 638
Inside coil diameter: 3.625 inches
Wire diameter: 0.630 inches
Load height: 11.125 inches
Load Weight: 1725.0 pounds
Approximate free height: 16.393 inches
Rated at: 327 Pounds per Inch

1968-'74 BBC Nova
For improved handling over stock springs, requires a stiffer spring.
Federal Mogul-Moog 6041
Inside coil diameter: 3.650 inches
Wire diameter: 0.718 inches
Load height: 11.25 inches
Load Weight: 2806.0 pounds
Approximate free height: 17.120 inches
Rated at: 499 Pounds per Inch after you cold cut off one of the closed ends you will need to experiment by cutting free height down 1/2 coil at a time (as this is a stout spring able to hold up 2800 pounds).


GM 3948989 TransAm road racing springs are
Wire diameter-0.750"
Free height-12.500"
Coil outside diameter-4.000"
Number of coils - 8
Load/rate-600 pounds per inch

1969-'74 Nova
Stock Rear springs: Four leaf springs were used for all V-8s
V-8 Rear Springs (same for SBC and BBC)
1969 GM 3955722 Code BK; Spring Rate 115 Pounds per Inch
1970 GM 3955742 Code BK; Spring Rate 115 Pounds per Inch
V-8 Heavy Duty Suspension (F40 and F41)
1969 GM 3955727 Code BG (base); Spring Rate 100 Pounds per Inch
1970-'72 GM 3955742 Code BK; Spring Rate 115 Pounds per Inch
1974 car is 46 pounds heavier in the rear than earlier years.

1968-'79 Nova
Stock Replacement Standard Rear springs:
1968-'71 2 door coupe, and 4 door sedan
Eaton-Detroit Spring 4 leave springs ML231 (126 pounds per inch V-8 all)
1972 2 door coupe, and 4 door sedan
Eaton-Detroit Spring 5 leave springs ML185 (100 pounds per inch V-8 all)
1973 2 door coupe, 2 door hatchback, and 4 door sedan
Eaton-Detroit Spring 5 leave springs ML3339 (125 pounds per inch V-8 all)
1973 2 door coupe Eaton-Detroit Spring 5 leave springs ML3339 (125 pounds per inch V-8 all)
1974 2 door coupe, and 4 door sedan
Eaton-Detroit Spring 5 leave springs ML679 (125 pounds per inch V-8 all)
1974 2 door hatchback
Eaton-Detroit Spring 6 leave springs ML1137 (125 pounds per inch V-8 all)
1975 2 door coupe, and 4 door sedan
Eaton-Detroit Spring 6 leave springs ML5137 (100 pounds per inch V-8 all)
1975 2 door hatchback
Eaton-Detroit Spring 6 leave springs ML1137 (125 pounds per inch V-8 all)
1976 2 door coupe, and 4 door sedan
Eaton-Detroit Spring 6 leave springs ML5137 (100 pounds per inch V-8 all)
1976 2 door hatchback
Eaton-Detroit Spring 6 leave springs ML4075 (100 pounds per inch V-8 all)
1977-'79 2 door coupe, and 4 door sedan
Eaton-Detroit Spring 6 leave springs ML5537 (100 pounds per inch V-8 all)
1977-'79 2 door hatchback
Eaton-Detroit Spring 6 leave springs ML4075 (100 pounds per inch V-8 all)
1977-'78 Police 4 Dr Sedan
Eaton-Detroit Spring 6 leave springs ML1137 (125 pounds per inch V-8 all)

1968-'79 Nova
Heavy Duty Replacement Rear springs:
1972 2 door coupe, and 4 door sedan
Eaton-Detroit Spring 4 leave springs ML1067 (125 pounds per inch V-8 all)
1973 2 door coupe, 2 door hatchback, and 4 door sedan
Eaton-Detroit Spring 6 leave springs ML1867 (125 pounds per inch V-8 all)
1973 2 door coupe Eaton-Detroit Spring 5 leave springs ML3339 (125 pounds per inch V-8 all)
1974 2 door coupe, and 4 door sedan
Eaton-Detroit Spring 6 leave springs ML1137 (125 pounds per inch V-8 all)
1975-'79 2 door coupe, and 4 door sedan
Eaton-Detroit Spring 5 leave springs ML4321 (125 pounds per inch V-8 all)

Big Dave
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2  
Old May 4th, 09, 12:08 AM
Philip Philip is offline
Site Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Marana, AZ 85653
Posts: 9,441
Philip has a positive reputation
Default Re: Springs have sprung

Good info Dave, thanks for all the hard work.
__________________
--------------------------------
64 Nova
77 Nova, 406, TKO 600, 3.73 8.5" 10 bolt SOLD
72 Chevelle Concours wagon
  #3  
Old May 4th, 09, 07:35 AM
ARE1971355 ARE1971355 is offline
Tech Team
Allen
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Nicholasville, Ky.
Posts: 477
ARE1971355 has a positive reputation
Default Re: Springs have sprung

Dave you have been a busy guy! Thanks for the info.
 
  #4  
Old May 16th, 09, 12:14 AM
Jackel Jackel is offline
Senior Tech Team *
Jack
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Central California (A Heat Sink Hole)
Posts: 1,896
Jackel has a positive reputation
Default Re: Springs have sprung

Dave this is great stuff. Thanks for putting in all the research time and then sharing it with us lazier people. Jackster
__________________
Retired Bum, The Transition Was Easy
70 Nova SS - Documented (My first ever "new car" purchased in 1970)
  #5  
Old May 16th, 09, 06:54 AM
Big Dave Big Dave is offline
Site Moderator
Dave
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Tampa FL
Posts: 17,333
Big Dave has a positive reputation
Default Re: Springs have sprung

I wrote all of the above and didn't mention that the three leaf multi leaf rear spring is designed to be used in place of a mono-leaf spring (fits inside the mono-leaf's spring perch). Split mono's sold by DSE and others are a drag racing spring were the front half of the spring is basically an iron bar and all of the spring's suspension takes place on the back half of the spring. Because the original factory mono-leaf spring is a variable rate spring (it doesn't have a linear spring rate of 'x' number of pounds per inch) that was designed for a light weight economy car (low torque small motor) it has a tendency to be very soft and flexible. This becomes a problem when you replace the four or small six with a large cubic inch small block V-8 that the factory engineers never envisioned being placed in the car back in 1959 when this car first hit the drawing boards. Not only do the motors have more torque than the 153 cubic inch four cylinder (roughly half of a 283), but hopefully you have by now upgraded the totally inadequate braking system that shipped with these cars designed for back when the when the maximum speed limit was only 45 miles an hour. I'm sure by now that you have discovered that unaided mono-leaf springs do not work well in drag racing; but you may not have discover you also suffer from uncontrollable wheel hop until it is too late to stop in an emergency.

This brings up the function of shocks which dampen the oscillations (such as wheel hop) of the springs and can save you and your car from having to explain to a skeptical officer that you were not the one at fault (seeing your hot rod planted firmly in some road obstruction like the old fart that pulled out in front of you). The purpose of the shock is to wrestle the spring into holding the car up and limiting sudden movement of the suspension. It is as important in controlling wheel hop on acceleration as it is on braking, for in either case a wheel that is in the air isn't doing anything.

The shock, as envisioned by the original engineers, was a hollow tube partially filled with oil above a piston. The piston forces the light hydraulic oil up through an orifice (think of it as being a jet like in a Holley) into a reservoir where it drains back on the rebound without being restricted. A 50/50 shock restricts not only the up stroke, but down as well; by way of the reservoir being pressurized with nitrogen gas. This gas shock system can then force the oil back down through another set of orifices. A fixed ratio shock is better than the original equipment, but "not as good as our best" to steal a phrase. With an adjustable shock you add a bleeder screw to the orifice (needle and seat) that allows you to fine tune the compression stroke (bump), and if you buy a double adjustable shock you can tune the system for rebound as well.

The shock is designed to have a fixed amount of extension (separation) and compression so if you change the values from the stock amount you need a new shock to compensate for the reduced travel (for all of those who have dropped their cars two inches or more). Additionally the shocks are designed to be mounted correctly (vertically, or at an angle with one end being up (the reservoir end). If you change the orientation you need a new shock because the orifice is designed to operate at a fixed angle, and if you change the angle you have to change the size to the orifice to compensate (this is were a double adjustable really works well).

Big Dave

Last edited by Big Dave; May 16th, 09 at 07:55 AM.
  #6  
Old May 17th, 09, 05:32 PM
Big Dave Big Dave is offline
Site Moderator
Dave
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Tampa FL
Posts: 17,333
Big Dave has a positive reputation
Default Re: Springs have sprung

Here is a picture of the difference between the mono-leaf spring perch (which will hold a 3 leaf aftermarket spring) and the multi-leaf spring perch.



And a picture of the multi-leaf spring being installed to the rear end.



Big Dave

Last edited by Big Dave; May 25th, 15 at 11:05 AM. Reason: Reestablished Photo Links
  #7  
Old Oct 24th, 09, 03:12 PM
J-Cin J-Cin is offline
Jeff & Cindy
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Delaware
Posts: 9
J-Cin has a positive reputation
Default Re: Springs have sprung

Iím building a 1969 Nova SS clone. How many leaves does a 69 have in the rear springs?
Thanks Jeff
[email protected]
  #8  
Old Oct 24th, 09, 04:38 PM
Philip Philip is offline
Site Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Marana, AZ 85653
Posts: 9,441
Philip has a positive reputation
Default Re: Springs have sprung

Welcome to Team Nova. The size of spring on a 69 SS should be a 5 leaf. Since your car is a clone compare your perch to the photos above and see what you actually have.
__________________
--------------------------------
64 Nova
77 Nova, 406, TKO 600, 3.73 8.5" 10 bolt SOLD
72 Chevelle Concours wagon
  #9  
Old Nov 15th, 09, 12:49 AM
ADC ADC is offline
Robert
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Wharton, Texas
Posts: 22
ADC has a positive reputation
Default Re: Springs have sprung

Big Dave,

Great info on the coil springs. You list this for the 6312's

Federal Mogul-Moog 6312
Inside coil diameter: 3.675 inches
Wire diameter: 0.640 inches
Load height: 10.750 inches
Load Weight: 1800.0 pounds
Approximate free height: 16.086 inches
Rated at: 337 Pounds per Inch

What would the info be for the MC6428 for the BB springs...?

Spring # MC6428:
Inside coil diameter: 3.675 inches
Wire diameter: _____
Load height: ______
Load Weight: ______
Approximate free height: ______
Rated at: ______ Pounds per Inch

I have looked on internet....unable to find it.

Thanks,

ADC

Last edited by ADC; Nov 16th, 09 at 10:57 AM. Reason: Correction of spring part number....
  #10  
Old Nov 15th, 09, 12:50 PM
ADC ADC is offline
Robert
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Wharton, Texas
Posts: 22
ADC has a positive reputation
Default Re: Springs have sprung

Big Dave,

I posted wrong number....I was asking about the MC6428 specs.

Sorry.
  #11  
Old Apr 20th, 10, 08:37 AM
DRC68SS DRC68SS is offline
Tech Team
Doug
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Stupid *** tax ripoff Jersey
Posts: 256
DRC68SS has a positive reputation
Default Re: Springs have sprung

Great information by Big Dave, but I can't find a listing for my 68 2 dr. coupe (SS 350). Stock was the standard 5 leaf. Can I assume the ML185 listed for a 1972 coupe is correct?
  #12  
Old May 21st, 10, 12:55 AM
tiresmokindad tiresmokindad is offline
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 6
tiresmokindad has a positive reputation
Default Re: Springs have sprung

I love your information Dave. I have learned lots about Coil Springs. I think I can apply this knowledge.
  #13  
Old Apr 21st, 11, 09:29 PM
ducatidennis ducatidennis is offline
Dennis
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 12
ducatidennis has a positive reputation
Default Re: Springs have sprung

Hello Big Dave, I was wondering the specs on the Spring # MC6428 also. That is what eaton spring recomends for my 68 bbc. Read another of your posts and you said you used a 6316 in your car for a firm ride and good cornering. After checking the specs on that spring it looked like a good one for my car but could not find any for sale. I tried a set of 6308 springs and it sits about an inch from the bump stops. I need at least 2 more inches of travel and a firmer spring rate. What do you suggest? Thanks.
  #14  
Old Apr 21st, 11, 10:53 PM
Big Dave Big Dave is offline
Site Moderator
Dave
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Tampa FL
Posts: 17,333
Big Dave has a positive reputation
Default Re: Springs have sprung

Quote:
Originally Posted by ducatidennis View Post
Hello Big Dave, I was wondering the specs on the Spring # MC6428 also. That is what eaton spring recomends for my 68 bbc. Read another of your posts and you said you used a 6316 in your car for a firm ride and good cornering. After checking the specs on that spring it looked like a good one for my car but could not find any for sale. I tried a set of 6308 springs and it sits about an inch from the bump stops. I need at least 2 more inches of travel and a firmer spring rate. What do you suggest? Thanks.

Contacting either Eaton Spring or Moog with your cars weight (at least the front half, but better with a four corner weight as measured by four scales under each corner), your desired (or what you are stuck with if lowered) suspension travel; and your desired ride height. Finally how stiff do you want your springs to be as they can make it ride like a lumber wagon (no suspension) to sponge rubber soft or anywhere in between.

They have engineers that will work with you and custom wind a spring just for your car and it doesn't cost much (if anything) more than the off the shelf spring (I can not recall the exact price but I was amazed at how affordable the service was). It did take them a while to deliver on the springs though; so if you need them next week, it is back to the catalog. Of course if you can not find a catalog spring then that might not help either.

All things considered if you can wait; buy a custom wound spring (or a couple of sets to have some other options as they are pretty cheap compared to other components we buy for our car without even batting an eye). Installing front springs isn't fun but getting the car to handle like a slot car is worth the effort.

This issue alone is why I recommend coil overs shocks for suspension in any serious car as you can change spring rate or other handling characteristics as easily as changing your socks.

Big Dave
  #15  
Old Apr 30th, 12, 11:54 PM
BowtieGuy55 BowtieGuy55 is offline
Gary
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Calgary, AB
Posts: 14
BowtieGuy55 has a positive reputation
Default Re: Springs have sprung

Hi, I have a question about the difference between F40 and F41 suspensions for 1974 Nova's. I'm guessing I'm not the first guy to look for this information and it might already be in one of the forums but I haven't come across it yet. I'm looking at buying a 1974 Nova SS on the other side on the country and am going through the question, answer and photo stuff with the seller, the car is near factory in it's appearence & interior but it's not 100% original under the hood . The NovaResource site covers some information about F41 but nothing about F40. Can a person tell the difference on these Nova's? The car does have a rear sway-bar. NovaResource.com lists only 891 '74 Nova's came with F41 but over 15,000 came with the F40 option. The car also claims a factory 4 speed which is also a low # option (4,667) and has all the standard factory SS equipment for this year. Thanks. (I'm new at the forum stuff and hope I'm in the right section)
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Closed Thread

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Front coil springs 65driver Brakes & Suspension 4 Apr 30th, 09 11:20 PM
which rocker arms and springs??? i_dunno_09 Performance 0 Jul 14th, 08 10:33 PM
nova coil springs 71Nova400 Brakes & Suspension 4 May 14th, 07 01:20 PM
Do I need springs with or without shims? raddad2 Brakes & Suspension 3 Feb 1st, 07 11:55 AM
1970 springs and shocks????? Don_Lightfoot Tag Team 5 Oct 13th, 05 11:15 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:53 AM.


© 2009 AutoForums
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.