What starter should I get? - Nova Tech
Nova Tech  
Find Nova Parts at SS396.com     
GROUND UP & SS396.com         
Official Sponsor of Team Nova
   

Auto Insurance



Nova Tech For best results please choose from the forums below.

Novas.net is the premier Chevrolet Nova Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old Apr 23rd, 19, 03:42 AM
70Nova454 70Nova454 is offline
Tech Team
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: CA
Posts: 44
70Nova454 has a positive reputation
Default What starter should I get?

Hey what starter do you guys recommend for my GM Performance zz454?



It has a 14" flex plate and a 168 tooth.


I have always used the factory style with the half covered up gear end, but I am seeing mostly the mini style with just a simple plate and the hear hanging out and exposed. What is the deal with that?

I don't have a bottom bell housing cover so all of this will just be hanging out susceptible to dirt and grime.

Anyone care to share their experience with the open and exposed style gear?

I like the idea of smaller and lighter, but am I going to run into issues since the gear is exposed and not covered up like the ones I have always had.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2  
Old Apr 23rd, 19, 08:28 AM
62 NovaWagon 62 NovaWagon is offline
Site Moderator
Art
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Big River, Ca
Posts: 7,091
62 NovaWagon has a positive reputation
Default Re: What starter should I get?

Aftermarkets are all open, factory ones get crudied up too, but if you're worried about it get the later factory closed one.

https://www.amazon.com/12560019-1256...EG6RXTBFGZSN3J
__________________
62 Nova wagon
75 Nova Custom
75 Nova Base
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old Apr 23rd, 19, 10:59 AM
Big Dave Big Dave is online now
Site Moderator
Dave
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Tampa FL
Posts: 17,311
Big Dave has a positive reputation
Default Re: What starter should I get?

Since copper has become so expensive now the factory is using a mini starter (gear reduction) that they buy from Hitachi. The full size are easy to identify because the 168 tooth starter has off set bolt holes (on a diagonal), and the 153 starter has the bolts side by side in a straight line. To distinguish a high torque BBC starter (all of which are 168 tooth) look for the copper extension (tube) from the front of the windings to the solenoid to allow the longer starter motor to reach the solenoid.

Big Dave
Reply With Quote
 
  #4  
Old Apr 23rd, 19, 05:49 PM
70Nova454 70Nova454 is offline
Tech Team
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: CA
Posts: 44
70Nova454 has a positive reputation
Default Re: What starter should I get?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Dave View Post
Since copper has become so expensive now the factory is using a mini starter (gear reduction) that they buy from Hitachi. The full size are easy to identify because the 168 tooth starter has off set bolt holes (on a diagonal), and the 153 starter has the bolts side by side in a straight line. To distinguish a high torque BBC starter (all of which are 168 tooth) look for the copper extension (tube) from the front of the windings to the solenoid to allow the longer starter motor to reach the solenoid.

Big Dave

Thank you guys. Big Dave, do you have an example pic of what you're talking about with the copper extension tube?
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old Apr 23rd, 19, 06:28 PM
70Nova454 70Nova454 is offline
Tech Team
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: CA
Posts: 44
70Nova454 has a positive reputation
Default Re: What starter should I get?

I found this one that should work for my application. It would seem many big block 454 guys are using this one and it has really good reviews. Any thoughts on PowerMaster high torque starters and will this one work on my Gen VI 168 tooth 14" flywheel zz454?


https://www.summitracing.com/parts/PWM-9200
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old Apr 23rd, 19, 06:42 PM
Big Dave Big Dave is online now
Site Moderator
Dave
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Tampa FL
Posts: 17,311
Big Dave has a positive reputation
Default Re: What starter should I get?

Best that China has to offer. Have you tried WalMart? They might have what you need in the auto section.

Big Dave
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old Apr 23rd, 19, 07:02 PM
70Nova454 70Nova454 is offline
Tech Team
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: CA
Posts: 44
70Nova454 has a positive reputation
Default Re: What starter should I get?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Dave View Post
Best that China has to offer. Have you tried WalMart? They might have what you need in the auto section.

Big Dave

China? Powermaster is not made in the USA even though they have "Made in the USA" stamped all over their adds and products and based out of Chicago? Am I missing something here?
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old Apr 23rd, 19, 09:36 PM
Big Dave Big Dave is online now
Site Moderator
Dave
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Tampa FL
Posts: 17,311
Big Dave has a positive reputation
Default Re: What starter should I get?

Prform is a privately held company located at 26708 Groesbeck Hwy, Warren, MI 48089 (you can Google the building and get a street view of an office building with a single store front). They have 9-11 employees, and have a good credit rating according to sites that supply info to investors, bankers and other business (Lumberg).

They don't make anything, but buy and rebrand items. The company is a licensee of GM; and is authorized to sell products with a Chevy logo on it. They have an over ninety page catalog of specialty tools (I have bought them for single use jobs over the years as their Harmonic Damper install remove tool has broken three times in use, but it is still cheaper than buying a quality Snap-On or Matco tool at over ten times the price). I don't think they make those thousands of parts in their building.

Big Dave
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old Apr 23rd, 19, 10:16 PM
70Nova454 70Nova454 is offline
Tech Team
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: CA
Posts: 44
70Nova454 has a positive reputation
Default Re: What starter should I get?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Dave View Post
Prform is a privately held company located at 26708 Groesbeck Hwy, Warren, MI 48089 (you can Google the building and get a street view of an office building with a single store front). They have 9-11 employees, and have a good credit rating according to sites that supply info to investors, bankers and other business (Lumberg).

They don't make anything, but buy and rebrand items. The company is a licensee of GM; and is authorized to sell products with a Chevy logo on it. They have an over ninety page catalog of specialty tools (I have bought them for single use jobs over the years as their Harmonic Damper install remove tool has broken three times in use, but it is still cheaper than buying a quality Snap-On or Matco tool at over ten times the price). I don't think they make those thousands of parts in their building.

Big Dave

Big Dave, what in the world are you talking about? Does Proform own Powermaster or something now? You got me so confused. Did you misread what I originally wrote or didn't check the link? Are you thinking I said Proform?



I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one. From what I have read and see with my own eyes, Powermaster is a USA based company with a large factory and assembly line/plant. You lost me on where you're getting your facts. Have a look for yourself at their factory tour video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=lR68nJ9QTJw


Unless you know something that the rest of us don't know and Powermaster has achieved misleading, lying, and cheating the world with all of their ads, sales, and parts, claiming they are USA based and all parts are "Made In the USA", then they fooled me and I am not sure why they wouldn't have been under investigation or a major lawsuit yet.



Unless you worked for Powermaster or know a guy that did that blew the lid off of this huge conspiracy and scandal, but until then I think I will have to believe Powermaster of what they are claiming and many others to also claim until you can prove the majority of the web and Powermaster themselves are lying.



I didn't want to get off into the topic of whether Powermaster is a USA based company or "The best that China has to offer" which is what you are claiming. I just wanted to know if this Powermaster PowerMax 9200 Hi torque starter is a good one or not. But then you saying its Chinese made and I should be shopping at walmart, I am wondering if you are even replying to the right thread lol or if this is another conversation you are having with someone else haha. So confused.



If you know something and there is a big scandal going on here with the USA based Powermaster company, please share and site your sources and let me know for sure.



Powermaster literally claims from their video that all parts are made by them in their factories and in the USA and they show the process in their factory tour making the starters. So, what are you referring to? So you got me scratching my head and sorry man, but I don't think you have all the facts on this one.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old Apr 23rd, 19, 10:29 PM
Big Dave Big Dave is online now
Site Moderator
Dave
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Tampa FL
Posts: 17,311
Big Dave has a positive reputation
Default Re: What starter should I get?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 70Nova454 View Post
Big Dave, what in the world are you talking about? Does Proform own Powermaster or something now? You got me so confused. Did you misread what I originally wrote or didn't check the link? Are you thinking I said Proform?



I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one. From what I have read and see with my own eyes, Powermaster is a USA based company with a large factory and assembly line/plant. You lost me on where you're getting your facts. Have a look for yourself at their factory tour video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=lR68nJ9QTJw


Unless you know something that the rest of us don't know and Powermaster has achieved misleading, lying, and cheating the world with all of their ads, sales, and parts, claiming they are USA based and all parts are "Made In the USA", then they fooled me and I am not sure why they wouldn't have been under investigation or a major lawsuit yet.



Unless you worked for Powermaster or know a guy that did that blew the lid off of this huge conspiracy and scandal, but until then I think I will have to believe Powermaster of what they are claiming and many others to also claim until you can prove the majority of the web and Powermaster themselves are lying.



I didn't want to get off into the topic of whether Powermaster is a USA based company or "The best that China has to offer" which is what you are claiming. I just wanted to know if this Powermaster PowerMax 9200 Hi torque starter is a good one or not. But then you saying its Chinese made and I should be shopping at walmart, I am wondering if you are even replying to the right thread lol or if this is another conversation you are having with someone else haha. So confused.



If you know something and there is a big scandal going on here with the USA based Powermaster company, please share and site your sources and let me know for sure.



Powermaster literally claims from their video that all parts are made by them in their factories and in the USA and they show the process in their factory tour making the starters. So, what are you referring to? So you got me scratching my head and sorry man, but I don't think you have all the facts on this one.

Nope I am the one confused. You are correct. Sorry!

Past my bedtime and my drugs are kicking in.

Big Dave
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old Apr 23rd, 19, 10:31 PM
70Nova454 70Nova454 is offline
Tech Team
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: CA
Posts: 44
70Nova454 has a positive reputation
Default Re: What starter should I get?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Dave View Post
Nope I am the one confused. You are correct. Sorry!

Past my bedtime and my drugs are kicking in.

Big Dave

Hahahahaha, all good man. You usually have such knowledgeable information and when something like that is coming from you it really gets me to question myself and my own knowledge since I usually defer to the much more experienced. So hahaha,


Lay off the drugs.


p.s. You think that 160 ft.lbs torque Prowmaster starter would be a good one then for my zz454 9.6:1 compression?
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old May 27th, 19, 03:02 AM
Schurkey Schurkey is offline
Tech Team
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: The Seasonally Frozen Wastelands
Posts: 92
Schurkey has a positive reputation
Default Re: What starter should I get?

When I wanted a starter motor, I'd go to the Treasure Yard, find one hanging on a Buick 455. Works great for 153-tooth flywheel Chevy engines, and the Big-Block Buick would have heaps and piles of torque.

Similarly, a starter bolted to a Cadillac, 455 Olds, or 455 Pontiac would fit the Chevy block if I put a Chevy nose-cone on the thing. Easy, cheap, effective.

I still have a heap of starter rebuild parts--brushes, drives, bushings, leather washers, shift-forks. And I suppose I'll die with them, because at least for Chevy and Buick use, I've moved-on to GM permanent-magnet, gear-reduction starters. (PMGR) specifically the model 260.

They can be had inexpensively; and they were original equipment on a huge pile of GM vehicles including the medium-truck 8.1L Big Block Chevy.

Last one I bought was a "famous name" reman from eBay, about $40 shipped to my door. Before that, it was a Delco reman also from eBay, about $60 shipped to my door. BE CAREFUL, most of the PMGR starters sold on eBay are NOT PG260, the ad cleverly says they "replace" the PG260.

1. GM has about four different "mini-starters", they are totally different designs. I think one of them is sourced from Hitachi, but not the others. The one I'm suggesting is called the "PG260".

2. Be sure to use the correct starter bolts, which are NOT the same as the bolts used with the earlier non-PMGR starter motors. The new starters have metric holes, but the block still uses SAE threads, so the bolts are "hybrid" having a large shank and knurl, but the "normal" 3/8-16 threads and SAE wrenching surface.

3. The PG260 can be had with a solenoid that includes an "R" terminal for use with points ignition. MOST will not have the "R" terminal, so they're only suitable for ignition systems with no ballast resistor.

4. Most any "mini-starter" does not play well with the ol' Ford-solenoid-on-the-fender trick to work-around poor conduction in the original wire harness (No starting when hot).

https://www.remyautomotive.com/dam/j...ary%202016.pdf

Last edited by Schurkey; May 27th, 19 at 03:15 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old May 28th, 19, 05:14 PM
70Nova454 70Nova454 is offline
Tech Team
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: CA
Posts: 44
70Nova454 has a positive reputation
Default Re: What starter should I get?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schurkey View Post
When I wanted a starter motor, I'd go to the Treasure Yard, find one hanging on a Buick 455. Works great for 153-tooth flywheel Chevy engines, and the Big-Block Buick would have heaps and piles of torque.

Similarly, a starter bolted to a Cadillac, 455 Olds, or 455 Pontiac would fit the Chevy block if I put a Chevy nose-cone on the thing. Easy, cheap, effective.

I still have a heap of starter rebuild parts--brushes, drives, bushings, leather washers, shift-forks. And I suppose I'll die with them, because at least for Chevy and Buick use, I've moved-on to GM permanent-magnet, gear-reduction starters. (PMGR) specifically the model 260.

They can be had inexpensively; and they were original equipment on a huge pile of GM vehicles including the medium-truck 8.1L Big Block Chevy.

Last one I bought was a "famous name" reman from eBay, about $40 shipped to my door. Before that, it was a Delco reman also from eBay, about $60 shipped to my door. BE CAREFUL, most of the PMGR starters sold on eBay are NOT PG260, the ad cleverly says they "replace" the PG260.

1. GM has about four different "mini-starters", they are totally different designs. I think one of them is sourced from Hitachi, but not the others. The one I'm suggesting is called the "PG260".

2. Be sure to use the correct starter bolts, which are NOT the same as the bolts used with the earlier non-PMGR starter motors. The new starters have metric holes, but the block still uses SAE threads, so the bolts are "hybrid" having a large shank and knurl, but the "normal" 3/8-16 threads and SAE wrenching surface.

3. The PG260 can be had with a solenoid that includes an "R" terminal for use with points ignition. MOST will not have the "R" terminal, so they're only suitable for ignition systems with no ballast resistor.

4. Most any "mini-starter" does not play well with the ol' Ford-solenoid-on-the-fender trick to work-around poor conduction in the original wire harness (No starting when hot).

https://www.remyautomotive.com/dam/j...ary%202016.pdf

I went with this one. Super light, half the size of the stock one, and pretty high powered. Thanks for your help and info.



https://www.jegs.com/i/Powermaster/713/9200/10002/-1
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old Jun 2nd, 19, 07:45 PM
Schurkey Schurkey is offline
Tech Team
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: The Seasonally Frozen Wastelands
Posts: 92
Schurkey has a positive reputation
Default Re: What starter should I get?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 70Nova454 View Post
I went with this one. Super light, half the size of the stock one, and pretty high powered. Thanks for your help and info.



https://www.jegs.com/i/Powermaster/713/9200/10002/-1
Based on how it looks, it's an aftermarket knock-off of the PG260.

I hope you got the right starter bolts to attach it.



Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Should I take the 3 speed manual and what should I sgrant0129 Nova Tech 6 Mar 4th, 15 07:21 AM
should or should not Ceciliajenk 1968-1974 7 Jan 18th, 11 09:20 AM
diff between full size starter vs mini starter jerryt Electrical & Wiring 8 Jun 14th, 09 11:49 AM
What do you all think? should i get it? i_dunno_09 Nova Tech 9 Oct 12th, 08 01:49 AM
What car should I get??? i_dunno_09 Nova Tech 14 Sep 19th, 08 09:13 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:31 PM.


2009 AutoForums
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.