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  #1  
Old Sep 30th, 09, 06:45 AM
74chevy 74chevy is offline
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Default ladder bar with floating housing! please help

Hey i have a 74 nova, its a subframe car, and i plan on using a ladder bar type setup with a welding in crossmember and a floating housing using leaf springs, how does this sound, i still want to be able to mini tub it. and also can i use lift trac bars as well, im a really good metal fabricator but im on a budget please help
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  #2  
Old Sep 30th, 09, 07:39 AM
Big Dave Big Dave is offline
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Default Re: ladder bar with floating housing! please help

So long as this is a strip only car sounds good. Just be aware that ladder bars do not work on the street (the floaters are to allow for suspension travel due to torque loading not bumps in the road). If it is to be a street driven car you must use a four link or the original horse and buggy technology leaf springs called a Hotchkiss suspension.

For those who will inevitably chime in and say that they have ladder bars and that they work fine I will refer them to view the many on line reference sites that explain the difference in suspension geometry between the two rear ends travel as it helps to explain their bump steer issues and broken or soon to be broken from being over stressed car parts.

Not only is a four link fully streetable and works so well GM uses it on all of their cars built between 1965 and 2000; except for their small economy cars (the Camaro is a sub species of the production Nova whether it cares to admit it or not), that it is favored in Pro racing because it is the best suspension design known for a live axel car.

If you need a solid link to control engine torque and want a cheap solution look to a single bar linking the rear with the chassis as used on the production 1967 Camaro (and all third and forth gen Camaros) or better known as a CalTrac when purchased for far less than the cost of a set of aftermarket ladder bars. They also work on the street and are the cheapest solution to your problem. There are several nine second CalTrac cars running on the street and the strip.

Big Dave
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Old Sep 30th, 09, 07:59 AM
74chevy 74chevy is offline
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Default Re: ladder bar with floating housing! please help

hey what is the defference between the cal tracs and "slide a link"
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Old Sep 30th, 09, 09:38 AM
Big Dave Big Dave is offline
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Default Re: ladder bar with floating housing! please help

The name possibly the price. It is a rod (solid or hollow) that goes above the spring (so you get more ground clearance than with slapper bars) that physically ties the frame to the rear end.

On a Slide-a-Link you have a slot with the pinning bolt captured so that torque is restricted but the suspension can still flex. The Cal-Trac uses a floating shackle (just like on the rear spring hanger) to allow for the bar to move along with the rear end and still prevent rotation due to torque.

Before either of these fine designs started competing with each other for hot rodders dollars the hot rodders made their own; which is why there is no copyright on either bar as they are just commercial versions of a home brew fix.

Both Ford and GM fixed torque wrap up by using a torque bar to link the rear end to the frame. Chrysler used a different approach keeping the stock springs they added two or three half leaves between the stock leaves on the front of the spring which greatly increased the front half of the cars spring rate to resist spring wrap up under torque. A lot of racers copied this trick but they didn't do the one thing that allows this trick to work. Chrysler installed an adjustable snubber on top of the nose of the differential with a bumper plate reinforced on the bottom of the top shock mounting frame cross-member that actually limited the amount of movement of the rear end for racing.

Big Dave
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Old Sep 30th, 09, 09:42 AM
brian oneil brian oneil is offline
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Default Re: ladder bar with floating housing! please help

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Old Sep 30th, 09, 09:51 AM
Big Dave Big Dave is offline
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Default Re: ladder bar with floating housing! please help

Quote:
Originally Posted by brian oneil View Post
Please Note on Brian's car (I assume those are his Cal-Trac's) that even though he has a mono leaf spring the front half is much stiffer than the back half. (You can see where the front half of the spring ends just aft of the axel, and the back half is much thinner).

Big Dave
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Old Sep 30th, 09, 03:26 PM
The Big Al The Big Al is offline
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Default Re: ladder bar with floating housing! please help

Quote:
Originally Posted by 74chevy View Post
hey what is the defference between the cal tracs and "slide a link"
Cal tracs are a solid mount.

Slide a link, A revolutionary, patented, completely bolt-on traction device, the Slide-A-Link™, designed for both street and strip use is track tested and competition proven to outperform conventional “Slapper” bars. A solid mounted front plate is installed inside the original front spring pocket and clamps to the leaf spring to provide a positive displacement for the torque that is transmitted from the rear axle through the telescoping bar and special durometer shock pad. These forces, along with improved instant center geometry, provide better weight transfer for increased traction. Free travel and pre-load adjustments are made on the vehicle by adjusting the jack screw at the rear of the bar.



In your original question you ask about ladder bars and retains the leaf springs.
This is easy done with the use of leaf spring floaters. This attached the spring to the housing not allowing the housing & ladder bars to bind.
Competition part#C2030 http://www.competitionengineering.co...?CatCode=10047

Before you get way ahead of your self with this. With any of these systems used frame connectors or a must.
With the ladder bar setup will require a rear cross member install.



Here is a good link to answer a lot of your questions,.
http://www.competitionengineering.co...s/chassis2.asp

Al
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Old Sep 30th, 09, 03:50 PM
Big Dave Big Dave is offline
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Default Re: ladder bar with floating housing! please help

I see they have changed things again since I last looked at them. Lakewood used to have a large flat eye with a slot inside of which was captured a spherical heim joint ball that could move fore and aft and you welded the the other end of the ladder bar to the housing. Now the lader bar bolts to the housing and you use a floater under the spring mount so the rear end can swing freely in an arc. This system probalby restricts movement to ann arc only as there was a lot of side loading with the old system. With some guys attempting top use a Panhard bar which will not work with leaf springs.

I should probably look at every product being discussed before talking about stuff as they have made a few changes since I last used one in the mid seventies. Just from the description of the slide-a-link I wouldn't consider it as telescoping bars while being bent sounds like a sure fire bound up part to me.

Big Dave
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Old Sep 30th, 09, 07:54 PM
brian oneil brian oneil is offline
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Default Re: ladder bar with floating housing! please help

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Dave View Post
Please Note on Brian's car (I assume those are his Cal-Trac's) that even though he has a mono leaf spring the front half is much stiffer than the back half. (You can see where the front half of the spring ends just aft of the axel, and the back half is much thinner).

Big Dave

Nope thats not my car, i wouldnt own one, it is a pukestang . I just posted a pic with CALTRACS so he would have and idea of what it looked like installed. Pretty much identical though to a Nova.

I do have the split monos though and I wish i had the disc brakes too
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Old Nov 22nd, 09, 12:08 PM
Vette468 Vette468 is offline
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Default Re: ladder bar with floating housing! please help

Ladder bars and Housing Floaters work okay on the Street, .. I havent seen LADDER bars welded directly to the Housing since 1977 -? wow this MUST be a old WEBSITE ...
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