[PDQ 71]

Well after I ordered the replacement fuel bowls for my 800CFM DP that I was rebuilding (because I had a brain fart and left the old bowls in the carb cleaner for like 4 months.........ooops ) I decided to go with the quick change jet bowls and I recieved them from Summit and went to install the primary bowl and realized that they failed to thread the fuel inlet. Both sides had NO THREADS. I called the manufacturer to make sure this was not right and it wasn't some cost cutting method they were doing now where you had thread them yourself and they confirmed they screwed up. So I had to return it to Summit where I ordered it from. And then I went to put in the Secondary bowl which did have threads (thank goodness) but the float screw holes did not look like they were threaded either. I stuck the screws down into the holes anyway and put some pressure on them and they began to suck in but honestly I'm not sure if the screw was just cutting it's own threads on the way down or what but they reached bottom and felt secure so I just made sure not to overtighten them and strip them out but then when I went to put the accelerator pump together I noticed a significant burr in the fuel inlet to the accelerator pump area. I used a small screwdriver to clean up the burr, but I will tell you that I was very disappointed with the QUALITY that xxxxx is putting out. First off their Quality Inspector didn't even catch that there was a completely MISSED OPERATION on the Primary Fuel Bowl with no threads cut in it, (pretty obvious even to the most casual observer, much less a trained quality professional) and then they can't even have their folks run a burr whip around the openings in their castings and clean them up????? I also noticed that on the outside of the bowl where the accelerator pump housing mounts that they didn't even finish cleaning up the machining, the machining just stops with enough clearance for the pump housing to seat and they didn't even smooth out the rest of the surface so they leave excess material around the pump housing. Take a look at your fuel bowls on the bottom and see if yours have the same BS sloppy quality or maybe this is just a bad example. Anyway, sad to see this kind of sloppy craftsmanship coming out of a company that has been around the automotive industry for so long. Sigh............

[62 NovaWagon]

Damn, sounds like "Quality Control" has gone down the crapper there, sad indeed!..

[Philip]

Sorry Dale but I either had to remove the reference to the manufacturer or delete the thread.

[David_H]

Originally Posted by Philip

Sorry Dale but I either had to remove the reference to the manufacturer or delete the thread.

Why it wasn't vendor bashing it was just a observation of quality control lets not go Johnny kinda crazy ok....

[Novaz]

Originally Posted by David_H

Why it wasn't vendor bashing it was just a observation of quality control lets not go Johnny kinda crazy ok....

[Novaz]

"Quote"First off their Quality Inspector didn't even catch that there was a completely MISSED OPERATION on the Primary Fuel Bowl with no threads cut in it, (pretty obvious even to the most casual observer, much less a trained quality professional)

Dale
first off if i had a dime for every time i heard your an inspector/qa tech/qa engineer and you should have seen this xxxxxxxxproblem i could build mine and you a spare engine
if that company even has a quality inspector he may not be tasked with doing what you think any trained proffesional should do most US companies have seperated out QA people and leave the machinest or operator to do their own inspection Quality Assurance has largely been put on the back burner in the last 25-30 years why do you think japan/china taiwan /have moved up the ladder so quickly sure a lot of chinese stuff is junk but a lot is not you get what you pay for if your lucky There is not much on my car that has not required mods or a bit of filing ,grinding to fit
and some from big name companies
I am not making excuses for bad quality but theres a lot going on in manufacturing that people on the outside dont see I was shocked when i went to the Ferrari factory and saw the sweepings and rejected ,messed up aluminum parts going back into the hopper used for engine castings
i have been 35+years in Quality Assurance/Control and let me tell you nothing surprises me oh and by the way if a company tells you they inspect everything 100% you wanna run because they have some serious problems.

3 year Electro /Mechanical degree (UK)
AQAP certified inspector
European Space Agency certified (Statistical Quality Sampling Plans)
TUV Accredited auditor
CAA Certified Flight Inspector
Nato Certified NBC Container Test and Inspection
Mitutoyo Calibration and Inspection Accredited

[Novaz]

[QUOTE=PDQ 71;86634]Well after I ordered the replacement fuel bowls for my 800CFM DP that I was rebuilding (because I had a brain fart and left the old bowls in the carb cleaner for like 4 months.........ooops )

Looks like you missed an operation there.

[o67]

the inspecter was probably texing or talking on cell phone when they went buy.i also dought that they check everyone more than likly 1 out of 50.

[brian oneil]

"First off their Quality Inspector didn't even catch that there was a completely MISSED OPERATION on the Primary Fuel Bowl with no threads cut in it"

As a QA you also know in manufacturing, every item is not QA'd, but a sample is done. For example every 1,000 float bowls manufactured, one is pulled off and inspected for quality....etc.

Looking at your credentials and qualifications, you do QA like I do, per job basis (Qualitiy Inspector, QI) and not on a manufacturing basis. Two totally different quality assurance operations. Now, not knowing the QA process for making float bowls and not knowing the manufacturing process, how much is done by automation and how much is done by hand, sometimes kinda hard to blame the QA department for a singular item. Now, if hundreds are like that, then 100% lack of a QA program.

[Novaz]

Originally Posted by o67

the inspecter was probably texing or talking on cell phone when they went buy.i also dought that they check everyone more than likly 1 out of 50.

YOU KNOW THAT FOR FACT OR BASED OR ON YOUR WORK ETHIC
Any company that has a little interest in Real Quality would use an AQL for sampling
in plain English this is a table giving a reasonable certainty for a batch of parts by inspecting a given number Let me assure you that most automotive parts are given a cursory look at
even Toyota with their whole lean and Quality focus have had defective parts pass through 53 different audit stages where each stage would check every previous stage ie inspector #53 would check 52 previous stages of quality one thing is for sure this QA person noticed 100% of all your spelling and gramatical mistakes,tHE biggest gate against quality today is the customer who mostly wants the cheapest $$$$$$$ part so the people that give you that then get hammered for the poor quality in the real world Quality costs money even if you cant see it or go .05 quicker in the 1/4 mile when someone says i got nuts and bolts cheaper at home depot than a specialist company i know they have a home depot car .

[Novaz]

Originally Posted by brian oneil

"First off their Quality Inspector didn't even catch that there was a completely MISSED OPERATION on the Primary Fuel Bowl with no threads cut in it"

As a QA you also know in manufacturing, every item is not QA'd, but a sample is done. For example every 1,000 float bowls manufactured, one is pulled off and inspected for quality....etc.

Looking at your credentials and qualifications, you do QA like I do, per job basis (Qualitiy Inspector, QI) and not on a manufacturing basis. Two totally different quality assurance operations. Now, not knowing the QA process for making float bowls and not knowing the manufacturing process, how much is done by automation and how much is done by hand, sometimes kinda hard to blame the QA department for a singular item. Now, if hundreds are like that, then 100% lack of a QA program.

I have been fortunate enough in my life to be on the cutting edge of Quality Technology as it has progressed from basic to dial calipers to Faro laser set up systems on Aircraft Carriers
as a resident Alien its almost impossible to work on Government /Military work here in the USA unless you can prove your previous clearance capability and for that experience i am truelly thankfull let me finish by saying that Quality is an unsung place to work
but it it is also very pleasing to know that for every success there is a quality person involved.
apologies if this seems like a rant but its been my life to provide Quality if it be a document ,a nut and bolt, or a device to give a better quality of life to a Human Being .

[brian oneil]

You know just like I do, a QMS is more paper, than anything else when dealing with the goverment. Mostly their on site surveyors dont know what they are looking at, and it is unfortunate, that contractors take advantage of that. Since you work on carriers, then you understand that Standard Items are in place for a reason. It is a crying shame that goverment inspectors know less about them then the contractors, and it is being taken advantage of. When the US military is one of the largest if not the largest spender in this country, so much is wasted on poor quality and craftmanship when there is a standard in place to prevent it. Good example, Newport News Ship building, a QA admitted not checking weld on a submarine. WTF???? So many sailors lives are at risk. Now the goverment has to go back to other subs built there and reinspect them. How much is that going to cost???? How many lives are now at risk because someone wanted to do paper work rather than thier inspections. Now that being said, where was the goverment inspectors on these "G" points????? Two fold problem.

[Novaz]

I am contract to US Government for Aerospace and Naval military hardware my regular work is in Bio Tech FDA implantable medical device work, at no time do i submit to builders or manufacturing assembly guidelines for paperwork/Documentation I have and will always be hands on
MY sign off is my life I work with three (3) other inspectors from Europe who have - DOD- certification I dont know if there are any others I do know that back at ESA we were viewed with envy by our US counterparts for having so much input as to what was allowed, will soon be at Bangor on Submersibles for upgrades so expect some interesting contacts ping ,ping,-ping

[PDQ 71]

Roy brings up a god point in that yes, most of the quality inspection has been removed from manufacturing. I have many years experience in Quality Control myself, and am currently in Manufacturing. Because of programs like Six Sigma, Lean Manufacturing etc. they believe that Inspection is a waste because it "adds no value to the end item". And they believe that the Quality should be built into the product by the worker. This is a good concept and would work if there were 100% standard procedures, and a workforce with a good work ethic, but more often than not, many in todays workforce just want to put in their 8 hrs or so, collect their paychecks and go home. Now there are still a lot of good folks in the work force don't get me wrong, but until you can remove the "HUMAN FACTOR" from manufacturing, I believe that inspection IS a value added operation. But look at all of the "Cost of Quality" when you have to perform rework, or the safety issues that arise when a "safety of flight" or in Brians example the submarine welds come into play. I've seen so many Six Sigma projects get signed off just to make the project manager look good but they do absolutely nothing to improve the real quality or the production of an item. But through statistics they can make anything look good on paper. Bottom line, I was still very disappointed that Holley put out such junk. It was wrong to blame it on the inspector, because you're probably right, it was not the inspector who missed the operation, but the operator. He probably had a basket full of fuel bowls and just blasted through them, but it is a good indicator that if this is the work ethic they have at HOLLEY now, then be advised and look your stuff over carefully!

And Roy, I hope like heck that your co-horts in the Bio-medical industry did a good job inspecting the new MECHANICAL HEART VALVE and AORTA GRAFT that I just got too! LOL

Cheers!

[Blown73]

Why can we praise a company but not bash it? Seems kinda silly. Some people should know that a certain brand is not performing to what they claim...I thought the point of forums was to help others in their builds.