Cam????? [Archive] - Nova Tech

: Cam?????


usarmynova
Oct 24th, 08, 11:44 AM
I have seen quite a few of you guys post some interesting stuff about cams before in this section. Being cam stupid I have a lot of questions lol. I am looking to throw a new cam in the nova but im not sure how to go about it. I know basically what the lift and duration of the cam are but that still doesnt help me much haha. Right now I have Comp Cams Magnum Series Hydrallic camshaft advertised .286 duration/490 lift. I want a little more pep out of the nova and figured getting a beefier cam would do the trick. I have heard that your heads have a lot to do with deciding what cam to go with, I have a set of Dart/World Sportsman II Iron heads(2.05/1.60) right now. Is there anything else that I should take into consideration, well firstly what the heck does that mean anyway lol, Im guessing that the 2.05/1.60 is some sort of flow number, right?????? Any information you guys could give me would be greatly appreciated as I am getting pretty close to D day ( back from iraq day :D) and I am trying to have all my ducks in a row so that I can do all of the work on the car while on my two week vacation when I get back.
Thanks guys.
Josh

jays64II
Oct 24th, 08, 12:21 PM
We need alot more info....alot! lol! no biggie! 2.05 and 1.60 are the intake and exhaust valve diammeters and too be honest those heads are too big for your current cam. They may be too big for you motor but we will find that out after i ask a few questions....so here we go !!!

What is the bore and stroke of your motor?
What is the compression ratio?
What is the part # and casting company of your heads?
Is this a street or race car?
What type of trans?
What rear gear ratio?

These are just some of the fundamental things we need to find out first.

If you have a basic 327-355 flat top piston 9-1 or 10-1 compression motor and those heads are 215cc runners or bigger you have too big a head on your motor.

brian oneil
Oct 24th, 08, 12:22 PM
I have seen quite a few of you guys post some interesting stuff about cams before in this section. Being cam stupid I have a lot of questions lol. I am looking to throw a new cam in the nova but im not sure how to go about it. I know basically what the lift and duration of the cam are but that still doesnt help me much haha. Right now I have Comp Cams Magnum Series Hydrallic camshaft advertised .286 duration/490 lift. I want a little more pep out of the nova and figured getting a beefier cam would do the trick. I have heard that your heads have a lot to do with deciding what cam to go with, I have a set of Dart/World Sportsman II Iron heads(2.05/1.60) right now. Is there anything else that I should take into consideration, well firstly what the heck does that mean anyway lol, Im guessing that the 2.05/1.60 is some sort of flow number, right?????? Any information you guys could give me would be greatly appreciated as I am getting pretty close to D day ( back from iraq day :D) and I am trying to have all my ducks in a row so that I can do all of the work on the car while on my two week vacation when I get back.
Thanks guys.
Josh

2.05"/1.60" is the intake and exhaust valve size repsectfully. Mostly you cant always just up and install new cam without knowing some other info. Like what springs are you running now? I reccomend that you buy a cam kit with the correct springs. You may or may not have to open your spring pockets for a larger spring depending on what you have now. Of course larger springs may require that you have different spring retainers
Another questions one would ask is:
1. What is your compression ratio.
2. What rear end gear ratio are you running.
3. What stall speed converter are you running or do you use manual tranny.
4. What intake manifold do you have? what size carb you running?
5. What size tubed headers do you have, or stock exhaust manifolds?
6. What is your intentions on use of the car?
7. HOw much horsepower are you looking for and is it obtainable with your current configuration?
I am sure Big Dave will add more to this as this is just some stuff that needs to be answered before just throwing hard earned money and effort into something that may actually not perform to your satisfaction. :thumbsup:

jays64II
Oct 24th, 08, 12:25 PM
brian looks like he's paying attention ! lol !

SHIFTY4
Oct 24th, 08, 12:48 PM
through the years i've found that in a lot of cases, for the street, that most people build an engine that's really more than they need.

an engine package that's built around the whole drivetrain will better serve it's purpose and perform much better than say, a 500hp engine with a stock driveline and suspension... not to mention brakes. it's NOT just the engine that's important... it's the whole drivetrain. everything needs to be built as a unit so to speak so they all compliment and work with the other components...

how do brakes, transmission, differential etc compliment an engine ???

all go and no whoa may be fine for some folks but after your foot went through the floor for acceleration... you do need to stop at some time. suspension (shocks, springs, bushings etc), differential (gears, axles, traction control etc) and the transmission play a vital role in a hi-perf car.

don't over do one and skimp on the others... you'll find the car doesn't perform to your satisfaction and will become a money pit chasing "Performance"

i think HP is sometimes way over rated in comparison to the other items in the "package"

Big Dave
Oct 24th, 08, 12:56 PM
As I have mentioned in the past a cam is to support the heads (I have 215cc intakes on my 406). It determines the RPM rnge that the motor makes it's power. Big heads and a big cam with no compression (a big cam bleeds off a lot of compression) and improper gears make the car good for Boneville style racing (like being a train engineer where it takes a few miles to get up to speed despite all that horsepower).

Fewer cubes and high RPM make for a very nasty sounding car that will get lots of comments but is a bear to drive on the street. What makes a car fun to drive is torque. Torque is what shreds tires and it is torque that pins you in your seat when you press on the gas pedal.

Torque comes from cubic inches, preferable obtained with a long stroke (a 305 has nearly as much torque as a 350 but at half the horsepower). Horsepower is great for overcoming friction and air drag, to continually turn left, circling an oval track. It will not get you off a light, or win a drag race. A 383 is nearly as good as a 406 (which explains why there are so many of them. If you are running around with a 327 or 307 you have a high winding short arm motor capable of making lots of high RPM horsepower, but very little torque due to their short 3.25" stroke. The 3.48" stroke 350 makes more torque than the 327 which is why it replaced it in the lineup.

A very narrow power band, high peak horse power SBC, that relies on a big cam and big heads to make power above 7000 RPM will be beaten everytime on the street by a stock 350. The 350 is making more torque and horsepower than the race built SBC where it is needed on the street (below 4,500 RPM). The big cammed motor may turn heads, and have everyone saying how great the car sounds, but you will have to ride the clutch, or have a 3,500 plus torque converter to get the car rolling from a stop sign.

That is why I have been building BBC strokers all these past decades.

Big Dave

usarmynova
Oct 24th, 08, 04:44 PM
ok here is some of the info you were asking for
Edelbrock Performer RPM intake
750 holley car
TH350 hardened outersprag
3500 stall
4.10 richmond gears
trw forged pistons
12:1 compression ratio
hooker super competition headers ( not exactly sure on tube size)
The car is a street car, I dont visit the track much. Maybe like once every other week on a test and tune day just to play around and see what kind of et's I can pull. I'm not expecting to create a 550hp monster out of this motor just something thats a little bit more powerfull then what I have now. I didnt have the chance to dyno it on R&R but I'm guessing im making close to 400hp now, I would like to be closer to 500 :D but then again who wouldnt lol.

usarmynova
Oct 24th, 08, 04:53 PM
oh yeah forgot you asked about the ci
358 sbc

jays64II
Oct 24th, 08, 05:00 PM
oh yeah forgot you asked about the ci
358 sbc

are you running this on pump gas with 12-1 comp.? are you sure the comp. is right? what is the chamber of the head , the dome of the piston , the thickness of the head gasket and deck of the block?

don't get me wrong...you can run 12-1 on pump gas if you can bleed of some cylinder pressure with overlap but not with that cam.

if that is the true static comp. of you motor i have got a couple cams to use.

what intake are you using? oh..i see it.....you can get more with a swap.

do you want to use nitrous in the future?

can you switch up to an 850 carb?

Big Dave
Oct 24th, 08, 05:04 PM
With what you have listed (especially the 12.5:1 pistons) you should be well North of 450 horsepower by now and running low 11's with ease. Your heads and current cam should support close to 500 horse at 6800-7200 RPM. If anything I would be using an 850 or bigger carb.

Has governor and accumulator been reworked along with adding a shift kit? You are going to want to raise your stock TH350 shift points the by modifying the governor (weights and springs) and stiffen up the shift when it happens (remove spring out of the accumulator and go with a thinner piston), along with the shift kit to change the shift points and make them occur faster.

You have a nice collection of parts; assuming they were screwed together correctly, and you are feeding it the right fuel (that means a more aggressive tune with higher octane fuel) you should be making lots of peak horsepower. It is the total area under the curve that engine builders attempt to optimize. The higher the peak the broader has to be the torque curve to keep from giving everything up down low to mid range to get there.

Big Dave

usarmynova
Oct 24th, 08, 05:59 PM
I am not sure on the piston specs you were asking for, I bought the car with most of the motor work already done. The previous owner of the car, which I still speak with, assures me that the comp. is 12:1 and yes I run it on 91 or the highest I can get my hands on at the pump lol.

Thats good to hear dave. I havent had a chance to run the car since its all been put together. I was going to run it on R&R but I had a few issues with my ministarter chewing up my flywheel lmao. Then something went haywire with the new msd ignition I put in, every time I let off the gas the damn car died lmao. I had to peddle the car 20 mils to the nearest trust worthy shop. It ended up being a stupid sensor in the distributor.

I can easily swap to a 850 carb, will my mechanical pump need to be changes as well to support the new carb. Right now I have a holley 130gph mechanical fuel pump. What is a good carb to go with. I have always just bought holley because of the popularity of the carbs lol. I'm sure you will see about a thousand carb questions from me when I go to swap it. Carbs are something I have never understood how to tune at all. I would rather fork out some money and get it dyno tuned lmao, thats how little I know about carbs. Everyone I talk to says : awwww man its easy just adjust the idle circuit bla bla bla this screw 1/2 turn that way, then this screw 1/2 turn that way lmao. I do that and never notice a big enough difference to even have the slightest idea what I am doing lol.

usarmynova
Oct 24th, 08, 06:03 PM
oh yeah, the tranny does have a shift kit, when I bought the car. It already had the TH350 bolted up. I'm again going on the previous owners word, which seems to be the bible to me, it has a hardened outersprag, shift kit, 10" tci street fighter converter.

usarmynova
Oct 24th, 08, 06:07 PM
oh yeah and almost forgot about you jay lol. should have awnsered most of the questions you had posted, well as much as I knew lol.
I dont ever plan on running this motor on the bottle. I thought about it for a short while, it is pretty much spray ready but I dont want to mess around with nitrous for the first time and blow my pretty little 358.
Just seems easier for me to find a lower compression engine, a lil bit bigger displacement, and blow or supercharge it.
Just never been the nitrous kind of guy I guess :D

jays64II
Oct 24th, 08, 07:08 PM
well...if it really is 12:1 then you may be having detenation problems on pump gas. i would almost bet on it. with an iron head the normal max you can go with a conventional cam grind is 10:1 maybe 10.5:1 and run pump gas. If i were you i'd start mixing 50/50 110 octance race fuel and 91 octane pump gas.

if it really is 12:1 would make the following changes to get the most out of this motor.

1. i'd switch to a more aggresive cam. in order to maintain some low end torque i would use one of my favorite off the shelf grinds which is a crane saturday nite special solid flat tappet with .518/.536 lift.

2. i'd switch to a vic. jr. intake and port match it to the heads.

3. i'd switch to a plain jane holley 850 carb right out of the box...mill off the choke horn , put block off in both metering blocks and start with #84 jets squared. you may need to go up or down from there. holleys are easy to work with as far as tuning goes but the 4 corner idle screws have nothing to do with performance. you may also have to adjust the squiters but if they are #28 in the front and #31 in the back that should be a good starting point.

ya know...it's so hard to explain stuff in typing. i'm so much better at just grabbing it , tuning it , adjusting it , slap it on the intake , fire it up , couple twists and she's ready.

brian oneil
Oct 24th, 08, 07:10 PM
if you plan i driving it on the street mostly the dual plane will work. If you want a lil more umph out of it, a low rise single plane would due a lil better. If you go much bigger in cam, it may dictate a single plane manifold for all out performance and a lil larger carb.

If you gonna mostly drive it on the street, i would think your compression is a lil too much. The engine almost sounds like a detuned weekend warrior motor.

Agian if you gonna drive it as a daily driver i wouldnt go to a larger cam. You are more than teetering on a track motor than a street motor.

usarmynova
Oct 25th, 08, 12:53 AM
lol ok now I am confused. the choke horn?? metering blocks?? lmao. why cant there be a carb I can just buy and slap on :D
Thats the second time I have heard of the saturday night special flat tappet cam, I mentioned that before but was warned about using a flat tappet, something about I would need to add some additives to my oil to run a flat tappet.

usarmynova
Oct 25th, 08, 01:40 AM
Well I might have not been real clear about the intentions of the car before. I do use it as a street car. Although not an every day driver, more like my toy. Being in the army and staying on post I dont need to drive 20 min to work every day, its just something I like to take out after work and play with :D You know, see how many ricers I can emberass lol.

jays64II
Oct 25th, 08, 03:29 AM
lol ok now I am confused. the choke horn?? metering blocks?? lmao. why cant there be a carb I can just buy and slap on :D
Thats the second time I have heard of the saturday night special flat tappet cam, I mentioned that before but was warned about using a flat tappet, something about I would need to add some additives to my oil to run a flat tappet.

well...break in is most important when installing a solis flat tappet. as far as oil goes most companies have removed zinc from their oil which is what ya need for a solid flat tappet. either get an additive or even simpler use a diesel truck oil like rotella 15-40 or look at the ingredients on the oil bottles for zinc content. once ya learn the tricks of a holley its like tieing your shoes. piece of cake

usarmynova
Oct 26th, 08, 04:54 AM
Ok this is where you can all line up and smack the crap out of me.
The motor is at @ 10.5 : 1 compression lol, dont know where the confusion of 12:1 occured lol ( I blame it on all this iraqi sand haha).
They are 64 cc heads
the pistons are TRW Flat-tops

Another quick question what does it mean when a carb is AED prepped???
what the heck is aed lol

Big Dave
Oct 26th, 08, 11:21 AM
Here is were I disagree a bit.

First is with removing power valves. Even on a trailer race car they can be sized at the track for weather conditions to run as designed. I do not like plugging off the power valve and enriching the main jets to compensate. As to air horn removal yes you can buy a Street Avenger or HP series of carb right out of the box with the air horn removed (no choke or choke tower).

Second is with Rottella having any more zinc than any other oil; it doesn't. January of 2007 all zinc was removed from diesel truck oil as the EPA required all diesel engines to run catalytic converters. It is the zinc in the oil that pollutes the cats. Because diesels were not running cats up until then they left the zinc in, but it is now all gone.

The only oil you can use with a flat tappet cam is racing oil. It is, or has to be if it contains ZDDP (Zinc dithiophosphate), labeled "Not legal for use in any vehicle equipped with a catalytic converter. For off road use only!" Flat tappets are dead, along with high Zinc motor oils. If you install a flat tappet cam you will be paying an additional $25 bucks at every oil change from now until you join the rest of the world who are all using a roller tappet cam. (That assumes they continue to manufacture Zinc additives, as fewer people use the additive it becomes more expensive to make it profitable).

I forgot what else I was going to say (something about life or death.. hmm)

Big Dave

usarmynova
Oct 26th, 08, 11:44 AM
I see what you are saying there dave. I just read about something comp cams is doing with there ft cams though, they are treating them some sort of special way to make the cam (advertised 100% tougher). Isnt the reason of using the zinc additive for the reason that flat tappets were not as durable as a newer style roller cam?? Ok just found it. It's in the nov issue of super chevy magazine. It sais and is titled PRO PLASMA : the cure for flat tappet camshaft worries.
The article say's : Why should I add this process to my next flat tappet cam?
Simply put- peace of mind. The always tightening EPA restrictions on modern motor oils have led to a drastic decrease of key oil additives, which are essential for proper lifter rotation in flat tappet valve trains. Without them, the probability of premature lobe wear, lifter seizure or even complete failure greatly increases. Comp Cams Pro Plasma Nitriding treatment is a permanent solution for flat tappet issues. It not only strengthens the contact area between the camshaft lobe and lifter but also increases the surface lubricity through reduced friction.

Sounds like they just took the flat tappet market to me lmao, says you can even send in your ft cam and have it treated by them. Of course this is not standard for every ft cam that comes of there shelfs, you have to pay extra for it.

Does this mean that I could buy a ft from them and have it treated and run normal oil and no more worries about Zinc and stuff???
What do you think dave?

usarmynova
Oct 26th, 08, 11:47 AM
Anyone have a clue about the AED prepped carbs I was talking about earlier, I mean what does that mean to me lol. AED????? lol

Big Dave
Oct 26th, 08, 12:27 PM
The "new" process that CompCams discovered is called Nitrating. You put the part you want hardened into a vacuum chamber and introduce a nitric acid based chemical compound. The vapors are then electrically attracted to the steel molecules and bond with them about five to six molecules thick (can you say thin coating) over a period of days (at least 48 hours). This surface treatment is very hard, but as stated very thin. Chevy used to treat all of their HiPerf Corvette and aftermarket 5140 forged steel cranks to this process back in the early to mid seventies. It was to allow the Corvettes to actually finish the 12 hours of Sebring and Watkins Glenn instead of falling out in the last two to three hours with spun rods or blown mains (the BBC was built originally as a race motor for NASCAR. It will run at wide open for hours, just not days).

Big Dave

SHIFTY4
Oct 26th, 08, 12:32 PM
Another quick question what does it mean when a carb is AED prepped???
what the heck is aed lol

just a guess here but i think it's probably a builder/advertizer who "prepped" the carb stated in the write up

another guy who can "Prep" your carb... Sean Murphy at "SMI" he's built a lot of carbs for guys in So-Cal, he was recommended to me and he did my 750dbl-pmpr Holley for me.

here's his link: http://www.smicarburetor.com/

usarmynova
Oct 26th, 08, 12:55 PM
So basically this "new process" isnt really new at all lol. Just another form of trick advertisement to make me buy there cams lol. What is the big difference between the flat tappet cams and the roller hydraulics? Why cant I find a hydraulic roller cam close to the same specs as the saturday night special flat tappet cam and go with that? or would there be a difference?

Big Dave
Oct 26th, 08, 04:37 PM
If you put a flat tappet on a roller cam lobe profile the edge of the tappet would dig into the flank of the lobe because the inclined plane that is the cam lobe is rising to quickly (same thing happens with a jeep or truck if it tries to cross a ditch, the front bumper digs in because the slope is to steep). Roller cams have a more aggressive cam lobe because the wheel is turning allowing it to roll up the steeper slope instead of digging in. I do not know what you are defining as the "Saturday Night Special" but cams are sorted by duration from the shortest to the longest at the bottom of the page. As I have mentioned there are series of cams with different names, as well as different applications that will all work in your motor. If you know what you want check all of the pages listing rollers for a cam.

Big Dave

usarmynova
Oct 26th, 08, 05:26 PM
well how does this sound.
Comp Cams xtreme energy Mechanical roller cam
@ 0.050 inch duration: 230.0 intake 236.0 exhaust
Lift: 0.552 intake 0.564 exhaust
grind # xr268r

usarmynova
Oct 26th, 08, 05:31 PM
well how does this sound.
Comp Cams xtreme energy Mechanical roller cam
@ 0.050 inch duration: 230.0 intake 236.0 exhaust
Lift: 0.552 intake 0.564 exhaust
grind # xr268r

jays64II
Oct 26th, 08, 07:42 PM
hyd. flat tappets , solid flat tappets , hyd. rollers , and solid rollers are all ground differently from one another because of there difference in how they are manufactured for the type of lifters and springs they use. You will not find any of the above with the exact same lift , duration , overlap and so forth. You can though find cams that perform in the same rpm range with similar characteristics that will do the same job. i always look at the solid flat tappets because they are the most bang for the buck as opposed to a more expensive hyd. or solid roller configuration where you are gonna spend ALOT more on the cam , springs and lifters. most people want to save a buck or two so that is why i mention solid flat tappet first. Cams , springs and lifters for a hyd. or solid roller are normally twice the cost of a solid flat tappet. if you are looking for the absolute most out of you combo for a drag racing application then a solid roller is the way to go. If you want it to be more streetable then hyd. roller is the way to go. hyd. flat tappets are only good for so much power , then the next step is the solid flat tappet or hyd. roller. they are about even. For the most power use a solid roller. of course though...your combo has to be matched to support each different type of cam. if you are looking at a good combo or low end torque , mid range and top end power you want to try and stick with a cam that has between a 106 and a 108 lobe seperation. cams ground at 110-114 lobe seperation are more commonly used for power adder applications and rely on the torque made by the power adder to make peak power. Ever notice that combos built to be used soley with a power adder don't run that well on motor alone? They rely on all of that added cylinder pressure to make power.

jays64II
Oct 26th, 08, 07:53 PM
Anyone have a clue about the AED prepped carbs I was talking about earlier, I mean what does that mean to me lol. AED????? lol


AED is a company that re-works holley carbs...just like Quick Fuel and many others. I was just tryin to save you a buck on buying a carb. there's about a $200 difference between buying a base model 850 that you can trick yourself and an HP carb , or AED carb , or Quick Fuel , or Proform. They are all $700-$800.

Base model holley 850 carb cost just under $500 part #4781

Race model chokeless 850 carb is about $70 more and will suit your needs best in my opinion. part #9380

blingin97
Oct 26th, 08, 08:35 PM
Question though is dont you have to have machine work done to your block if you have a 2 pc rear main seal? Thats what I was told. I want to go with a solid tappet but now I dont know. doesnt it have something to do with the cam waliking in pre 79 blocks? Thanks

Big Dave
Oct 26th, 08, 08:59 PM
Flat tappets are not really flat; they are concave. Because the lifter only rests on half of the lobe, the concave portion causes the tappet to rotate in the bore so there is less wear (Though they do wear to match the lobe, and must always stay with the same lobe that they are removed from. They can never be mixed up, such as putting all in a pan). Two piece rear main seal blocks were all equipped with flat tappets from the factory. You have to buy rollers with tie bars to retrofit this style of block.

Because the cam is round and the bottom of the lifter is cup shaped the cam can not slide from front to back as the spring forces the lifter down and the cup holds it in place. A roller cam and the lifter are truly flat and do walk back and forth. They have to be retained by a step cut on the nose of the cam and a block plate for the stock GM cams, or a Flat Torrington bearing and a roller bearing cam button holding the cam sprocket in place on an aftermarket cam.

The one piece rear main seal blocks used hydraulic roller lifters made by Delphi that rely on a dog bone retainer and a spider shaped spring to keep the retainers in place. The spider is held down by two screws in the lifter gallery. You would have to fabricate two stands and machine the stands to accept the screws to use OEM (Original Equipment Manufacturer) lifters. This may be the machine work he was talking about.

Big Dave

blingin97
Oct 26th, 08, 09:03 PM
little confused Can I put a roller in without machine work in a pre 79 sbc without anything done to the block??:confused:

jays64II
Oct 26th, 08, 09:09 PM
yes....they make roller cams for non-roller cam blocks

Big Dave
Oct 26th, 08, 09:13 PM
Yes if it is using an aftermarket roller cam with tie bars on the roller tappets. They are designed to be used in pre 1985 blocks (two piece rear main seals). I used a set in my 1978 SBC 406

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f63/3454545/DSC02845.jpg

If you are trying to retrofit the OEM (stock) Delphi lifters and dog bone retainers you will need to machine the front of the block down to accept the retaining plate and the two securing holes have to be drilled and tapped. You will also have to first fabricate and then attach permanently two stands capable of being threaded to hold the two mounting screws for the spider spring that holds the dog bone retainers in place.

Big Dave

blingin97
Oct 26th, 08, 09:14 PM
As I am looking at Summit How do you tell if it will work in my block??

Big Dave
Oct 26th, 08, 09:18 PM
It will say "retro fit" "fits two piece rear main seal" some where in the description. Because everyone with a one piece rear main seal block has all of the roller hardware all they buy is the cam for about $250. Because you have to buy everything including new springs for the head your tab will be closer to $1,200 for the complete kit. That is usually a dead give away that you are talking retro fitting an older block.

Big Dave

blingin97
Oct 26th, 08, 09:29 PM
What would a machine shop charge to do that??

Big Dave
Oct 27th, 08, 01:09 PM
I am the wrong one to ask. You need to ask your machinist that question.

To keep machining costs down I only buy aftermarket blocks for my builds (the '506 '78 SBC 400 block was the exception, as this was supposed to be a simple overhaul to rebuild the motor for my daily driver; "No more race car motors" says the wife).

Big dave

blingin97
Oct 27th, 08, 07:00 PM
so if I had a 383 with Victor jr intake with Sat. nite special cam with 280/288 518/536 flat tappet cam and dart pro 1 heads with 2.05/1.60 valves, with 10.75 to 1 comp, would I be close to 500 hp?? Thanks

jays64II
Oct 27th, 08, 07:50 PM
i would say so. i have built 9.5-1 comp. 355's with that cam with dart 2 heads , 2.02 and 1.60 valves with vic. jr. intake and a 750 holley with 1-3/4 tube headers , full exhaust , th350 trans with 10" conv that flash 3200 stall with 4.11 gears and 275/60/15 drag radials run 11.80's in 3600 lbs full body all steel g-body cars and they only shift at 6000 rpm and that equates to 475 horse at the crank.

i have also built 11-1 383's with brodix track 1 heads , the .555/.578 saturday nite special cam , same headers , same intake , 850 holley , same trans , 8" 4500 stall race conv. , 4.11's , 28x10.5 slick at 3200 lbs. run 10.80's shifting and trapping at 6300 rpm in the same type of car...just obiously lighter

blingin97
Oct 27th, 08, 11:06 PM
so if I ran that motor and went up to a 850 carb would it be possible to reach low 11s with proper suspension Thanks

blingin97
Oct 27th, 08, 11:19 PM
Also since crane changed all their part numbers would you know it??

jays64II
Oct 28th, 08, 01:45 AM
Part Number:111452Grind Number:F-260/370-2-6Engine Identification: Start Yr.End Yr.MakeCylDescription19571987CHEVROLET8Engine SizeConfiguration 262-400 C.I.V Valve Setting:Intake.026Exhaust.028HOTLift:Intake @Cam370@Valve555All Lifts are based
on zero lash and theoretical rocker arm ratios. Exhaust @ Cam385@Valve578Rocker Arm Ratio1.5 Cam Timing:TAPPET@.020Lift: OpensClosesADV Duration Intake45.5 BTDC69.5 ABDC295 ° Exhaust82.5 BBDC42.5 ATDC305 °Spring Requirements: Triple Dual Outer InnerPart Number96877LoadsClosed126LBS @1.850or1 27/32 Open333LBS @1.320 Recommended RPM range with matching componentsMinimum RPM4400Maximum RPM7600Valve Float8500Cam Timing:TAPPET@.050Lift: OpensClosesMax LiftDuration Intake28 BTDC52 ABDC102260 ° Exhaust65 BBDC25 ATDC110270 °

jays64II
Oct 28th, 08, 01:50 AM
the conv. is critical...as in all applications. not reccomended for continous cruising over 3500 rpm such as a long drive on the highway. beats the springs up. the 111452 part # is for the complete cam kit with cam , lifter and springs to fit stock dia with no machining required. this is more of a track setup than a street cruiser set up.

usarmynova
Oct 28th, 08, 03:22 PM
wow lol sounds like my car to a T there jay. All except the gears 4.10 here. :D
I wanted to say thanks for all the info dave and jay. I finally made up my mind and went with the saturday night special for the nova, excepting the fact that I will just have to suck up the cost of the additives with the oil changes, oh well.
I was looking at carbs and I like the 4150 hp series holley carbs, but I have a question. What does downleg booster mean? What is that referring to. Thats what a friend suggested to me, Holley 4150 hp mechanical secondary downleg booster car, and a MSD Pro-Billet distributor.
Thanks again guys,
I appreciate all of the information

Josh

jays64II
Oct 28th, 08, 03:28 PM
i prefer annular boosters over a downleg boosters but to each their own...kinda like to debate wether to use power valves front and back or to use block offs. In my case i like the annular boosters and block offs as my car sees more wide open throttle than partial throttle so i can live with a lil' blubber at part throttle. Nothing that a quick crack of the throttle can't cure.

jays64II
Oct 28th, 08, 03:32 PM
I like getting together and discussing stuff with everyone on this site. seems that everyone learns a lil from everyone else which makes a good mix of ideas. lord know we all have different opinions on some things but that's what it's all about...trying new things , trial and error and such. You won't know if something works until you try. My cars are constant guinea pigs. Always trying to make a difference for the better and seeing what works and what doesn't.

SHIFTY4
Oct 28th, 08, 03:35 PM
My cars are constant guinea pigs.


so, do they get tired of runnin' around in the plastic ball ? ;)

hehehe :D

The Big Al
Oct 28th, 08, 03:45 PM
I like getting together and discussing stuff with everyone on this site. seems that everyone learns a lil from everyone else which makes a good mix of ideas. lord know we all have different opinions on some things but that's what it's all about...trying new things , trial and error and such. You won't know if something works until you try. My cars are constant guinea pigs. Always trying to make a difference for the better and seeing what works and what doesn't.

Yes I agree.

In the quest for more Hp. We always find the weakest link.
And in that quest it always shows up at the most inconvenient time!

jays64II
Oct 28th, 08, 03:47 PM
right now they get tired of going up and down on the lift , or sitting on the lift for extended periods of time or they get tired of just being in pieces. i've been so busy with all these mini business adventures my head just spins ! i think i'm the only guy i know who is working on 4 different business at the same time ! 2 of my own and 2 helping my friends. Kinda like having 4 part time jobs but ya do each one about 15-20 hours a week each. the cars are feeling very neglected right now. My new hobby is hand porting cylinder heads for the ricer kids around here. poor kids. they see my cars and look at them and don't really know what they are lookin at. but that's o.k. , they are paying $300 per 4 cyl head for a port and polish that takes me about 6 hours to do.

SHIFTY4
Oct 28th, 08, 03:50 PM
yeah, but would ya like it any other way ??? ;)

sounds like ya don't have a "Job" you have a paying "Hobby"

there's a big difference between the two :thumbsup:



i'm glad ya take the time ta yik-yak with all of us... it's low paying i know ;)

The Big Al
Oct 28th, 08, 03:53 PM
I was looking at carbs and I like the 4150 hp series holley carbs, but I have a question. What does downleg booster mean? What is that referring to. Thats what a friend suggested to me, Holley 4150 hp mechanical secondary downleg booster car, and a MSD Pro-Billet distributor.
Thanks again guys,
I appreciate all of the information

Josh

A straight-leg booster has, as its name implies, a straight leg, which protrudes from the body of the carburetor into the main venturi. Its discharge ring is situated slightly above the venturi’s most effective zone.

A down-leg or drop-leg venturi booster drops the discharge ring lower in the carburetor’s main venturi where it operates in air of higher velocity, which draws more fuel than the straight-leg style of booster.

The annular-discharge venturi booster has a larger ring with multiple discharge holes rather than the single outlet hole of the straight-leg or down-leg style of booster. This has the effect of creating a venturi within the main venturi that produces greater vacuum than either the straight- or down-leg varieties and draws even more fuel.


Pros and cons of each type of booster are based largely upon its application. However, if each style is tested in the same carburetor with all else being equal, the down-leg booster will require smaller jets to flow the same amount of fuel than a straight-leg booster. And the annular-discharge booster will require even smaller jets to flow the same amount of fuel as the down-leg type.

FYI

AL

http://img117.imageshack.us/img117/6973/carbboosterillustraitiogy1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

jays64II
Oct 28th, 08, 04:07 PM
yeah, but would ya like it any other way ??? ;)

sounds like ya don't have a "Job" you have a paying "Hobby"

there's a big difference between the two :thumbsup:



i'm glad ya take the time ta yik-yak with all of us... it's low paying i know ;)


well....lets see.....the small contractor business i started back in april is doing o.k. , but that stuff has always been a hobby for me....the chassis shop is getting ready for the busy season once again , we just moved my friends trans shop to a larger building and i'm usually there doin paperwork or lending a hand a couple days a week.....i'm still workin at my friends bar 2 nites a week.....i help another friend.....ummmm.....i have too many friends !!! it's all good! $200 a few days each , here $300 a few days each there it all adds up. do i add pool and poker to the mix of income too ???

SHIFTY4
Oct 28th, 08, 04:12 PM
no, the pool & poker are extracurricular activities ;)

sorry :( ;)

jays64II
Oct 28th, 08, 04:21 PM
well...today is not a good day for anything. the weather here is miserable as i'm sure most of you heard that they cancelled the continuation of the world series game from last nite. my yard is saturated , wind is 30 mph or better , it's snowing 100 miles to the north , it's only 38 degrees here after it was 55 yesterday afternoon.......so.........today is my "catch up on house work and laundry day".........and chat with all you good folk.

jays64II
Oct 28th, 08, 04:25 PM
Al ! Great job with the pics !!!