Need Help with the 454 [Archive] - Nova Tech

: Need Help with the 454


My74'sLike
May 13th, 10, 07:35 PM
Alright theres alot of work that needs to be done to this car...
so far i had someone tell me the engine isnt straight, its off to the right alittle n that i need new brackets or mounts.
the orginal (for a 350) one/s are still in there.

anyone have an idea?

http://i750.photobucket.com/albums/xx144/Robs74/2010-05-13142553.jpg

as you can see the original owner murdered the headers on the right... im not sure if this was caused because of the the incorrect brackets or mounts. would this have happended either way? if i get new headers will i run into the same problem the owner had before?

ok another thing is the pulley set...
earlier i posted a thread talking about my power steering bracket, how it snapped. the bracket was for a 350 but was still put on the 454. well i just had to mickey mouse the the brackt to get it right temporarily.


http://i750.photobucket.com/albums/xx144/Robs74/2010-05-13142506.jpg
http://i750.photobucket.com/albums/xx144/Robs74/2010-05-13142517-1.jpg


I was thinking about just getting a new pulley set... this one seems to be off. the flex fan murdered the transmission cooler that was right in front of it, god only knows why it was put there in the first place :hurray:... also the alternators nose infront of the pulley get smacked by the fan when rpms increase. Any suggestions, perhaps where to get a good deal on a set?


http://i750.photobucket.com/albums/xx144/Robs74/2010-05-13142628.jpg

tell me whats wrong with this picture? that spring looks a little sketchy:noway: should it be that far out, what do i do? (yes... im serious im really new to this :o). where should it be attached if needed to be closer?


Thanks to everyone that can help me out:D

Big Dave
May 13th, 10, 10:08 PM
You have serpentine pulleys with V-belt brackets. The nose on the alternator can be removed it is decorative and doesn't do anything. You could consider serpentine brackets (billet aluminum) but they are not cheap, at the very least consider them for the P/S pump which used a V-belt combined with a serpentine belt from 1986 to 91 on big block powered pick-up trucks if my memory serves me correctly.


As to the motor mount issue there has been volumes written on the subject of a BBC installed where a SBC used to reside. Search not only this site (I wrote a sticky on the subject), but at Team Camaro which uses the same frame that you have, and as such uses the same parts; or you get the same problems.

Big Dave

My74'sLike
May 14th, 10, 02:07 AM
thanks alot Big Dave:thumbsup:

blk74nova
May 14th, 10, 10:33 AM
Rob, those frame mounts are the cause( and whoever put it in's BFH) of the smashed. I just put some new headers on my 74 and had to put a small ding by the rear steering box bolt. I used March power steering brackets. On the return spring, I would get a longer one. Mine is in the large hole on the carb and attached to a return spring bracket bolted to the front of intake.

earthquake77
May 14th, 10, 11:55 AM
:eek:

My best advice is to find a local guy that is really good with hotrods and befriend him. It's going to be hard to try and explain everything that is wrong with that car without actually being there.

I've had a few customers come in with cars that looked like that. They were unhappy because they were undependable. You have to fix all the rig jobs and make it right or you'll be forever unhappy with what could be a nice car. (My customers left happy)

My74'sLike
May 14th, 10, 07:08 PM
thanks for the heads up Quake...

Hey BLK do you think if get custom mounts it will help me out alot? i have a friend of a friend whos a welder and offered to help me out... he said he can make some at $120 each for me

what do you think?

earthquake77
May 14th, 10, 11:19 PM
As far as the mounts go, take Dave's advice. Read up about them. Big block A/C frame stands put the engine off center to the driver's side an inch. 307 frame stands raise the engine more than the 350 mounts. Not all Chevy frame stands and engine mounts are created equal. You need to find the right set up to get the engine where it belongs.

This is why I suggested getting with someone that knows hotrods. There's lots of variables the average repair mechanic won't know about.

Again, good luck with the project.

62 NovaWagon
May 15th, 10, 01:11 AM
Have no experience in a car, but did a swap to a big block in a 70 1/2 ton panel truck and the big block bolted right up no problem, but had a problem with accessories hitting the frame took a while to figure it out but the frame brackets are different between the small and big block, using small block brackets the motor sits too low but they still look identical!...

Big Dave
May 15th, 10, 07:53 AM
A big block will not fit properly between the fender wells of a Camaro or a Nova without the correct motor mounts. This is because the small block V-8 was an after thought brought out to compete with the Mustang/Falcon package combined with the fact that the big block is two inches wider, longer and nearly two inches taller than the small block Chevy engine (it's called a big block for a reason). Ford had it easy as their V-8 is only a sixty degree V, where as the Chevy V-8 uses a ninety degree V. So the cylinders are spread further apart and take up more room between the fenders (but sit lower for more room on top for induction).

If you are thinking of using a big block I strongly recommend finding a pair of reproduction frame stands and matching motor mounts (there are three different motor mounts for the BBC depending upon the frame stand you choose which reflect the evolution of the motor mount connection getting stronger with time). If you are going to be making your own motor mounts you can add a fourth motor mount to the mix because the Corvette and early 1955-57 Chevy's used a four corner frame mounted system that used the front and back of the block to mount the motor into the car. You can simulate that in the Nova with a front motor plate and a mid mount plate from the aftermarket.

Unlike early narrow rail pick-up trucks where the accessories are hitting the frame; the usual complaint with the BBC in a Nova combination it is generally either a complete lack of room requiring cutting up the uni-body suspension's shock towers on a 1962-'67 Nova, or the headers to clear the steering gear box and clutch linkage on the newer Novas (you have to use a reproduction BBC first gen Camaro cross-bar (aka Z-bar) to get the linkage to fit in a 1968-'74). But there is also a lack of room for a big radiator and mechanical fan (requires a rare special shroud to fit) and at the back of the block finding room for an HEI distributor (the small cap HEIs will fit in place of a factory points style distributor). Then there is the problem of closing the hood. The factory used a flat hood with a dropped base Corvette air cleaner on the Nova, and a standard height air cleaner with a cold air package hood that had a two inch raised hood on the Camaro to get everything to fit. Finally at the bottom of the motor there is the issue of an oil pan because the motor is bigger it has more of the motor on top of the cross member which will be tight quarters without the proper motor mount and frame stand. On the first gen Novas with their front sump oil pans you are required to buy an aftermarket system of pan, pump and pick-up since the factory never attempted to put the BBC under the hood (not even the "W" engine which I wish some would consider instead of the Mark IV). With most BBC donor engines being found in pick-up trucks; since there hasn't been a factory BBC in a passenger car since 1973 (with the 1974 Corvette having the honor of the last BBC installed in a vehicle under 7500 pounds GVW) you automatically have to buy a new pan and oil pump pick-up to match as the pick-up pan won't clear a car's frame cross-member.

Big Dave

62 NovaWagon
May 15th, 10, 10:27 AM
the usual complaint with the BBC in a Nova combination it is generally either a complete lack of room requiring cutting up the uni-body suspension's shock towers on a 1962-'67 Nova,

That's because they weren't built with a BB in mind, but why cut it up, just put a front clip on it that accepts a BB!...

SHIFTY4
May 15th, 10, 01:41 PM
one thing i'll add that i'm sure everyone will agree with...

when you start to repair/fix items you see that need fixing... do it right the FIRST time or you'll end up going broke fixing it the second, third, fourth times.

Mickey-Mouse repairs have a tendency to come back and bite ya on the azz... and Ol' Mickey has some big, sharp teeth ;)

62 NovaWagon
May 15th, 10, 01:58 PM
one thing i'll add that i'm sure everyone will agree with...

when you start to repair/fix items you see that need fixing... do it "right" the FIRST time or you'll end up going broke fixing it the second, third, fourth times.

Mickey-Mouse repairs have a tendency to come back and bite ya on the azz... and Ol' Mickey has some big, sharp teeth ;)

No truer words spoken there!!!!.....:beers:

blk74nova
May 15th, 10, 07:49 PM
I used the 69 bb frame mounts to work with a long water pump. Got mine from chevy restoration world and the motor mount side came from autozone. I also used a shroud froma 69 camaro and cut it to fit and drilled 2 holes to mount it. Doesnt look the greatest but it was better than overheating. Another thing to think about is 73-74 heater box is a little different than the 68-72 box.